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Stop selling your time for $10!

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by LadyHoldem, Oct 28, 2006.

  1. Notting

    Notting Notable Member

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    #121
    yes it is, its a service just like any other. You can buy high or low quality service depending on your needs.

    SEMrush
     
    Notting, Nov 6, 2006 IP
    SEMrush
  2. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #122
    No, writing is NOT like other markets. It's not only "communication" based, but language-based. Writing for any kind of publication can not simply be done by anyone anywhere. It needs to be done, in the majority of writing markets (of which the "webmaster market" doesn't represent on a large scale) by individuals who can appeal to the publication's readers in their native language.

    It's not a matter of people "disagreeing". It's a matter of the same points being repeated by new people over and over, b/c they're too lazy to actually read through a thread before responding with the same things already said by a dozen other people. When a point has been addressed by multiple people, and the thread finally starts to die down, someone else comes in ignorant of the entire discussion and throws old points out there. The reason I continue to address them is because far too many new and underpaid writers here honestly DO believe some of the nonsense they hear in this one market, and think this is how to get to a professional level in their writing careers. Encouraging them to realize there is no "global market" for writing in general, and that they need to pursue other markets to earn more (which they're fully capable of doing) is something I'm not going to stop doing.

    It's also not about the best deals... it's about that group of writers who enables it to happen finally waking up and realizing that other people are willing to pay far more for their time. The market will adjust in time either to increase rates with those webmasters who insist upon "professional" and native-english writing, or they'll learn to adapt to even lower quality, as those writers will (hopefully) finally move on to markets where they're paid what their time is actually work.

    What do "transaction costs" have to do with writers knowing how to find and work their way into other writing markets??? This is basic supply and demand. And there's more than enough demand for native english speaking writers who are reasonably good at their craft, that they don't need to settle into a niche market just because they don't know where else to look. And that's what several of us are trying to do here.
     
    jhmattern, Nov 6, 2006 IP
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  3. marketjunction

    marketjunction Well-Known Member

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    #123
    Let it die . . . let it die.

    :D
     
    marketjunction, Nov 6, 2006 IP
  4. Notting

    Notting Notable Member

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    #124
    Yes it is. How many other markets have you studied?

    Good for you.

    Of course there is a global market. What about every internation newspaper and every international journal?
    That sentence is a contradiction in itself. Are you a full time writer?

    Thats what transaction costs are. Time spent winning contracts = friction = transaction costs.

    There is nothing basic about supply and demand (getting bored of arguing with you now)

    Have a fun crusade....


    Notting
     
    Notting, Nov 6, 2006 IP
  5. marketjunction

    marketjunction Well-Known Member

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    #125
    The main topic was about "good" writers that purposely undercut themselves. It's a big issue among professional writers and something not even thought about outside that circle.

    At least, that's what I thought it was about. :D
     
    marketjunction, Nov 6, 2006 IP
  6. DeniseJ

    DeniseJ Live, Laugh, Love

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    #126
    Notting, unless you have something remotely intelligent to say (rather than the immature bantering back and forth you're currently engaging in,) I'd stay out of the conversation.

    Jenn will win against you, anytime :p
     
    DeniseJ, Nov 6, 2006 IP
  7. Notting

    Notting Notable Member

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    #127
    erm....i wouldnt have thought so, not when it comes to economics.
     
    Notting, Nov 7, 2006 IP
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  8. jaybong

    jaybong Peon

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    #128
    I think this is really the crux of the matter.

    Although the price is set by supply and demand, each writing market is segmented much like the different markets for cheap cars and luxery cars.

    If the quality of cheap content is low, then buyers seeking high qualtiy content are really not in that market, so quality writers don't need to worry about poor writers undercutting their prices.

    Since anyone can supply poor content, prices in that market will be low. But because only quality writers can supply quality content, their is a fixed supply so if there's demand at a high price, the quality writers will be employed at that price.

    As writing is really a service it can be compared to other services such as acting, hairdressers etc, all of which are characterized by massive pay differences depending the quality of the service provided.

    I'd love to draw graphs but I have to get back to my economics study.
     
    jaybong, Nov 7, 2006 IP
  9. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #129
    This wasn't really a discussion about economics until you decided to turn it into one. ;) "Market" isn't a term exclusive to economics, and wasn't being used in that capacity, but rather in the sense of audience/client relationships (as in marketing, and the types of people/companies writers should be targeting). A few people tried making the case for one global writing market in an economic sense, which simply isn't the case as there are many... which is something you even agreed with.

    MarketJunction had it right. This started out as a thread regarding good professional writers who undercut their rates, and trying to help to show them that they don't need to do that, b/c other markets exist who will happily pay them enormously more. But honestly, any thread regarding money in the copyright forum seems to end up in the exact same debate. ;)
     
    jhmattern, Nov 7, 2006 IP
  10. Notting

    Notting Notable Member

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    #130
    Well I think we've come to some good conclusions in this thread from a couple of different approaches. I think I should get back to work now!


    Notting
     
    Notting, Nov 7, 2006 IP
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  11. qwestcommunications

    qwestcommunications Notable Member

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    #131
    When you sell your work (writing) you are guaranteed an income, but the buyers who put the work on their sites are not. This is exactly why there is a big market for copywriting.
     
    qwestcommunications, Nov 9, 2006 IP
  12. LadyHoldem

    LadyHoldem Well-Known Member

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    #132
    If you know what you're doing, and you've done your homework, then you will make money.

    If you hire a writer that knows your market, knows your keywords and knows SEO then you've done your homework.. Now we can SEO the text on the page.. after that it's up to you.. you have to get the page indexed, get the backlinks, have the right domain, whatever..

    If we were to write completely based on your income.. we'd either A. have to be very choosey who we write for, so no newbie sites! or B. Have some sort of control over how and where you intend to present our content ;)

    But.. that being said.. I don't understand how our being guarenteed payment, and your not being guarenteed payment creates a bigger market for copywriting.. if anything I would assume the opposite...

    ~LadyH
     
    LadyHoldem, Nov 9, 2006 IP
  13. DeniseJ

    DeniseJ Live, Laugh, Love

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    #133
    Guaranteed an income, sure. But if we want to make sure we are making a LIVEABLE income, we have to work at that, as well. That's not guaranteed.

    I'm with LadyH, though. I don't understand your theory behind what makes a bigger market for copywriting.
     
    DeniseJ, Nov 9, 2006 IP
  14. Anteros

    Anteros Peon

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    #134
    Good Writers should evolve into Bloggers PLUS writers. Quality articles of course are worth much more than $20 so if they learn a little bit of internet marketing they can get much more.
     
    Anteros, Nov 9, 2006 IP
  15. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #135
    Why do you say good writers should have to be bloggers out of curiosity? Blogging is one of the lowest paying writers' markets out there. It's also not about "Internet marketing" - there's much more out there than just what's on the Web, and the highest paying online markets don't ever ask you to so much as use a single keyword. It's all about quality and targeting the correct markets for your skills and background; not SEO or internet marketing. ;)

    And if you'd like some samples of higher paying markets, check out the markets I just finished posting at www.sixfigurewriters.com, www.myspace.com/sixfigurewriters, and www.allfreelancing.com (have to register to see these ones, and it's where I try to put the highest paying listings for the day). :D
     
    jhmattern, Nov 9, 2006 IP
  16. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #136
    First of all, webmasters' income can be affected by quality content, but it's in their own hands to properly market their sites. If they didn't come up with a unique idea, tolerable design, and marketing strategy to promote the work they're buying to make it profitable, it means that they're not a great businessperson; not that the writing isn't effective or worth it. They have to take responsibility for making their site profitable... not the freelance writers they hire.

    I'm assuming you mean "big market" as in broad, global, and cheap. Could be wrong of course. In that case, you may have a point... but like I said, it's not a writer's job to make your site profitable... as the owner, that's your job. You can either do it, or you can't. You could pay for the best copywriting in the world, and it's not going to make a bit of difference if the webmaster isn't getting traffic to that copy in the first place. ;)
     
    jhmattern, Nov 9, 2006 IP
  17. DeniseJ

    DeniseJ Live, Laugh, Love

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    #137
    Way to promote, Jenn ;) :) Honestly though, you'll find great examples of what she's talking about at the above mentioned websites. Hopefully, people will start to get a clue as to what *REAL* writers are worth, eh Jenn? :)
     
    DeniseJ, Nov 9, 2006 IP
  18. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #138
    lol I know. I'm bad. I can't help it sometimes. ;) Some of the ones I've posted are even on the low end, but they're pretty diverse. All of them (aside from the non-paying/low-paying section of the forum) are somewhere between $.10/word and $1.25/word I believe, and some of the per project ones are anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars for features. Definitely worth a look, and we'll have new ones every day. :)

    Jenn
     
    jhmattern, Nov 9, 2006 IP
  19. DeniseJ

    DeniseJ Live, Laugh, Love

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    #139
    I know! I'm going to be hard-pressed just to catch up each day with new leads :p. I think you're doing an excellent job though, Jenn. At the very least, hopefully we can educate a few writers AND webmasters out there that .00006 cents per word isn't acceptable.
     
    DeniseJ, Nov 9, 2006 IP
  20. Anteros

    Anteros Peon

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    #140
    I love the way you are promoting your services and how you motivate writers and webmasters =)
     
    Anteros, Nov 9, 2006 IP