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Stop selling your time for $10!

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by LadyHoldem, Oct 28, 2006.

  1. dirtisbetter

    dirtisbetter Peon

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    #21
    I'd personally rather have a set fee. It is easier for me in terms of budgeting my money etc. Doing a rev share program is like working on commission..you never can be sure what your paycheck will be.
     
    dirtisbetter, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  2. Phynder

    Phynder Well-Known Member

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    #22
    Exactly - and I certainly understand your position. It is part of the risk vs. reward. And you trade off part of the reward for less risk.

    This highlights the argument of "look how much they make off you" as not relevant to the discussion of "value" a copywriter creates.
     
    Phynder, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  3. LadyHoldem

    LadyHoldem Well-Known Member

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    #23

    Couple points to be made there, not only does the quality of the article make a difference in revenue, so do the SEO skills of the buyer.

    In addition, there is never security in this kind of thing.. I have a subscription based article service, which is about as secure as I'm going to get, the payments are auto through paypal... so I KINDA know what my base for the next month will be, but even they can cancel... You never have that kind of assurance when working for yourself, thats part of the excitement ;)

    ~LadyH
     
    LadyHoldem, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  4. daboss

    daboss Guest

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    #24
    do you realize that some people live in areas in the world where $10 is a couple of days worth of wages? ;)

    the outsourcing problem being complained by america is also happening in our little community here. :D
     
    daboss, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  5. Phynder

    Phynder Well-Known Member

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    #25
    What I am hearing writers say is this:

    There is security in this industry and that is money up front - how much money you make with my content (within the agreed bounds and not trampling the Copyright) is your concern - not mine.

    I was reacting mostly to your comment about how much money the users of copywriter's content were making. I think that is irrelevant to the question of a writer's worth.
     
    Phynder, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  6. dirtisbetter

    dirtisbetter Peon

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    #26
    Well, I think there is some sense of security. For instance, I can look at all the jobs I have scheduled now. Let's assume that only 75% of the people pay me. Still..I can estimate that between now and X amount of time, I will get this much money.

    Of course, that can vary from X amount of time to X amount of time. But as least you can guess how much you will have in the next two weeks.

    I also agree, it doesn't matter how much money people are making off you. It is very similiar to a factory worker who is paid $8 dollars an hour. Sure, Chevy is going to sell the vehicle for a whole lot more than they pay all the people to work on it. But that is just the way business works. If someone takes something I wrote and makes money off it, then good! That is the point of me providing them the content. If they want to wallpaper their house with articles I write or use it to line their birdcage, then I don't care either.

    I set prices that I feel are fair given the time and circumstances. Once I get paid, I'm happy. If someone can make a lot of money off what I write, then they are likely to come back and use my services again.

    I love to write..I don't love to create adsense websites. As long as I am bringing in money by doing what I love then I don't care how much money they make off me. And if I start caring, I will then consider a revenue share program.
     
    dirtisbetter, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  7. eXe

    eXe Notable Member

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    #27
    I have no problems selling other people's time & effort for minimal wages:D

    As a previous poster rightly mentioned, $10/hour isn't a bad income for many people in India. Lots of people in India go through years of education and then work day jobs 9 to 5 and get paid $300 at the end of the month.
     
    eXe, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  8. marketjunction

    marketjunction Well-Known Member

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    #28
    Worrying about what other people do is pointless--especially here. You mind as well go to a swap meet and yell at everyone for not charging full retail prices for their merchandise. ;)
     
    marketjunction, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  9. Pat Gael

    Pat Gael Banned

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    #29
    This is sooo true!!!

    There are many people around moe concerned about Shoemoney's money making machine or what Google may consider good or right in others' site, but rarely worried about themselves without useless comparisons.
     
    Pat Gael, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  10. hextraordinary

    hextraordinary Well-Known Member

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    #30
    Don't forget that most of the content writing you find here is the low-end. The better writers would be still writing for big and established media outlets. I still remember the day I received a $750 check for a single 1000 words article.
     
    hextraordinary, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  11. kh7

    kh7 Peon

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    #31
    [off topic]
    Yes, I'm quite willing to sell links, but not for the prices offered on DP - this is definitely the low-end. Probably true for writing articles as well.
     
    kh7, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  12. Sleepy_Sentry

    Sleepy_Sentry Well-Known Member

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    #32
    I will write any article you want for $3. My best niches are computers, cell phones, and pets. Up to 500 words only, please. If interested PM me.




    Just joking... :p


    I have considered writing articles in the past, but after looking at the terrible prices writers get, quickly decided not to.

    Like a previous poster said, it's all in supply and demand. There are so many writers out there that prices are very low. It's a buyer's market.

    In many countries, $10 an hour is very good, assuming you could churn out an article an hour. It's almost twice minimum wage in the U.S. If someone is willing to do work for that amount of money and they have a good standard of living, all the more power to them.

    And not all webmasters can afford to pay $50 an article, especially when they are starting out.
     
    Sleepy_Sentry, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  13. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #33
    $10 / hour can't be compared to working the minimum wage or any other rate in the US. It doesn't factor the same even slightly. The average freelancer or consultant only works 23 "billable hours" per week, b/c the rest is spent on marketing their services and administrative tasks (based on a full-time 40 hour schedule). On top of that, they have business expenses. On top of that, they pay additional taxes. At $10 / hr, when all 40 aren't billable, plus the added expenses, that would easily work out to less than minimum wage. This is one of the worst misconceptions on both sides... freelancers and those hiring them. They don't learn how to crunch the numbers properly from the start, and both sides overestimate what the freelancer (in this case writer) is actually getting out of it. $10 / hr doesn't even work out to be remotely fair.

    In my own article writing, b/c of my rates and how quickly I can turn out a decent article in my niche, I earn anywhere from $200-500 / hr. I only do article writing part-time, but I can tell you if you take your work seriously, there are more than enough clients willing to pay you what you're worth. But once a writer starts accepting ridiculously low rates, it's almost impossible to raise them significantly later.

    The problem from the writers' perspective is that you need to stop looking at writers from India and other places as your competition. There's no need for them to be. There are more than enough people hiring writers who are only native english speakers, who are hiring only for certain experience levels, etc. Like in any line of work, build your expertise first, and then you'll never have to participate in a low-paying market.

    As some of you know, I recently started a small professional writers network. It's currently all DP members. A small sub-group of us are going to be initiating a challenge to ourselves next year, to earn six figures through our writing, with some of us doing it part-time and some of us doing it full-time. Aside from helping each other expand (the point of solid networking anyway), we're going to be teaching other writers along the way how to up their rates, find higher paying clients, etc. so they don't have to rely on the webmaster market to make a lower living than they could otherwise be making. I sincerely hope we're able to help at least a few other writers here on DP to start earning what their time is worth, rather than what they feel they have to sink to in order to compete globally... especially when it's not necessary in the slightest.
     
    jhmattern, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  14. wazimm

    wazimm Peon

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    #34
    It all depends on where you're from... Some countries $10 U.S is quite a bit and will have more purchasing power than in the U.S
     
    wazimm, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  15. dirtisbetter

    dirtisbetter Peon

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    #35
    Well, if you have information on this, I'd love to hear it.

    On a side note, I saw an advertisement yesterday where the poster was offering a QUARTER for 400 word articles. He was also demanding that they be high quality. Ha.
     
    dirtisbetter, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  16. Phynder

    Phynder Well-Known Member

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    #36
    You may want to have some discussions with American auto workers about this strategy!
     
    Phynder, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  17. ConstantContent

    ConstantContent Banned

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    #37
    Yea, but these places don't have good writers or a good grasp of the English language. We reject articles everyday from people from these places. Not to mention our editors find 90% of the plagiarism comes from these places as well.
     
    ConstantContent, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  18. gil857

    gil857 Member

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    #38
    Your not kidding. In the search for an online income to supplement my day job, I started out trying my hand at reseller hosting. A lot of work and low revenue from my experience. I got out of it and now I'm looking toward content sites on subjects that I am interested in.

    A lot more fun!
     
    gil857, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  19. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #39
    lol Find that one on GAF? The networking group was just discussing that one too... the worst I've personally seen to date.

    EDIT: (sorry for missing this before) I do have a lot of information on this. I've shared several points repeatedly on this forum, and have had writers come to me telling me they got good paying gigs for listening. For starters, stop looking to forums for content writing jobs, and start looking at niche-specific resources (two of the best are www.mediabistro.com and www.journalismjobs.com - both offer a lot of full-time writing work, and on-location writing work, but if you follow regularly and dig deep, you'll occasionally find some amazing freelance ops). The group is going to be sharing quite a bit of information starting in January (we're getting the site and newsletter set up in the meantime) on higher paying markets, how we find our clients, how we monetize our writing ourselves, etc.
     
    jhmattern, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  20. daboss

    daboss Guest

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    #40
    that's why there are going to be problems when countries like china and india start to tap the globalized markets. ;)
     
    daboss, Oct 29, 2006 IP