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Stop defending DMOZ

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by sridhar kondoji, Oct 16, 2005.

  1. mdvaldosta

    mdvaldosta Peon

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    #121
    Well, good luck to all those that apply with the DMOZ. Either way, it's a free directory and whether everyone is honest or not, whether it's fair or not, nothing we can do about it. I hope to one day get listed, and if I do you better believe drinks are on me all night - hell I might take a beer bath! No use worrying over something you have no control over. Build your site the best you can and hope that someday you'll get listed.
    SEMrush
     
    mdvaldosta, Oct 19, 2005 IP
    SEMrush
  2. cooldmoz

    cooldmoz Banned

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    #122
    I am not an editor.
    I don't want to do volunteering.
    I work for my clients and have some good editors inside.
     
    cooldmoz, Oct 19, 2005 IP
  3. ethical

    ethical Peon

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    #123
    Hi Cool DMOZ, welcome back from your trip!

    I think you may have misunderstood the difference in DMOZ between the international categories such as

    http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/E-mail/E-greetings/Invitations/

    and the regional directories such as http://dmoz.org/Regional/Oceania/New_Zealand/Auckland/Councils/Waitakere_City/Recreation_and_Sports/

    It's my understanding that the sites listed in the international directories must have a universal appeal - ie beyond a single country or region. Online Invitations certainly fit that bill.

    Sites that serve a specific, physical, community go into the Regional categories and are expected to appeal only to those people within the region.

    A quick Google (http://www.google.com/search?q=population+waitakere) shows the population to be 168k. It's those people who expect to see appropriate sites in that part of the directory. Maybe we should be asking them.
     
    ethical, Oct 19, 2005 IP
  4. bradley

    bradley Peon

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    #124
    :rolleyes:
     
    bradley, Oct 19, 2005 IP
  5. cooldmoz

    cooldmoz Banned

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    #125
    ethical,
    I don't want to talk too much about a particular website or person.

    Let me end this topic here.

    Evite doesnot fit the bill of international website.
    Evites categories are only suited for west and western culture.
    Show me one theme there which meets the needs of Hindu/Muslim religon?
    Or for that matter cater to the festivals related to India?

    Clearly ebulawa.com meets that criteria.
    That website, if closely checked suits christians, hindus, Islamists, Sikhs, etc.
    Also, it covers festivals of all of India.

    In anycase, It is the habit of DMOZ to burn good websites.
     
    cooldmoz, Oct 19, 2005 IP
  6. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #126
    What a joke, you are slagging off DMOZ, yet you say you have 'Good' editors. How can they be good if they are doing the very thing you are condemning others for.

    One last thing,

    What on earth makes you think you have the right to make a statement like "let me end this topic here" Man you are too funny. I like you your fun, cmon post something sensible ;)
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Oct 20, 2005 IP
  7. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #127
    :D Another great post, OWG.

    You may be old, bald, and Welsh, but you're definitely not stupid... ;)
     
    minstrel, Oct 20, 2005 IP
  8. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #128
    cooldmoz - how much are the taxes in that fantasy world of yours? :D

    Don't feed him lies. The probability is that the site will not be even reviewed in years and nor will any others in that field. When it is reviewed, it could be rejected for lack of original content, that is possible. But only spammers and their wares are banned. I see nothing to tell me this site is spam.

    Even you, of all people, reckon 40% are lies? :D

    Loads of reasons, mostly good. Why on earth would people want to collect stamps. They must have their own reasons - a worldwide conspiracy to destroy the world's postal system. Once they work out how.

    Just look at the notice in the RZ forum, it has all the reasons. And the editors were asked whether they wanted to continue or stop the status checks. They chose, by an overwhelming majority to stop. I was in a small minority that wanted them to continue but I respect and understand the views of others. There was no attempt by anyone to "influence" the debate and that comes from someone who lost the argument.

    Change webmaster to spammer and you've actually got a very good reason for stopping the checks. If the site is rejected we don't want it resubmitted. Just wastes our time that could have been spent listing decent sites.

    No it won't. Not if resubmitted before review in the same category. It is sites submitted to loads of categories or after being rejected that look like spam. And they are spam so what's the problem?

    Close. If the site is rejected we don't want it resubmitted unless it is substantially changed from when it was rejected. What is the point? It wastes our time and the submitter's time. If it hasn't been rejected we don't know it has been rejected until it is reviewed.

    I'll take your word for the latter. Several thousands waiting EQUALS over-subscribed.

    I allege DMOZ is uncorrupt, despite a few bad eggs you could expect amongst any random group of 50,000. I further allege you haven't a clue what you are talking about because you can't grasp the concepts. And finally I allege all sites are reviewed in accordance with published guidelines and category charters by editors who are monitored regularly and if an editor breaches guidelines and in so doing is proved guilty of abusing their position they are shown the door. Under your own rules I have made the allegations and that is case proven.

    No they won't so don't waste your money, you haven't been rejected yet as far as I know. And your chances have not altered at all. You can, however, improve your chances by adding more and more unique and interesting content. The more the better.

    Are you brave enough to let us know the URLs to prove they aren't spam?

    You sign yourself "Stupid DMOZ"? Please drop the DMOZ bit, you are not associated with us.
     
    brizzie, Oct 20, 2005 IP
  9. shygirl

    shygirl Guest

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    #129
    "Why on earth people want to volunteer at ODP? "

    Because as an editor of a non-profit minor health related category, I'd like people with the same affliction as me to know about the best and most informative online places to visit. That's why I spend my time looking for the best sites out there to put in it.

    The same goes for numerous categories for example, like cancer related, premature baby related, all the editors in the disabled categories, or those working hard trying to find sites in the kids and teens sections to help kids with their homework, or those editors working in the biology, chemistry and physics sections, or those in reference section..need I go on ?

    Do you think those editors are in it for the money ? Honestly ?

    I do not need I think to defend anything.
     
    shygirl, Oct 22, 2005 IP
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  10. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #130
    I commend you, shygirl. And it's not that I discount the altruism factor in all editors.

    But I must say that unfortunately I highly doubt that altruism is the motivating factor for most DMOZ editors. Then again, I do recognize that in most cases (there are some exceptions even here at DP) the most public DMOZ editors tend to be the most arrogant, obnoxious, power-hungry, and self-serving. The truly altruistic editors for the most part don't pop into forums to insult those who criticize DMOZ - they just quietly go about doing their thing. And that's precisely because they are NOT doing it for the fame and glory and power. It happens in the background.

    There are two here at DP - Alucard and compostannie - that seem to have a genuine and sincere interest in trying to understand why so much of the internet world hates DMOZ and in trying to do their part in countering it. I admire and commend that too.

    The snide snipers, on the other hand, I think we can all do without... they accomplish nothing positive for FMOZ... all they do is foment more hatred.
     
    minstrel, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  11. shygirl

    shygirl Guest

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    #131
    "the most public DMOZ editors tend to be the most arrogant, obnoxious, power-hungry, and self-serving. "

    But don't you think thats part of the problem ? 99% of editors like me stay in the background ? I only stumbled upon this forum through a link to an entirely different area here, and I was a bit taken aback by the attitudes presented towards the ODP.

    I had no idea this was the case. I only volunteered in order to build up an area close to my heart that I felt was sadly lacking in good, informative, relevant sites, ( and yes, I was accepted as an editor first time ). I was feeling quite good about it until I saw the very negative posts here. Loads of them.:confused:

    The way I see it DMOZ is crying out for editors, however, most apply for editorship in the very, well, 'commercially orientated' shall we say areas, and I can say from my limited experience, I wouldn't want to go near those with a bargepole. Even in my clearly outlined health-related advice category I get a few submissions proclaiming to be 'advice' when it's clearly a product or service that's being promoted.
    Those sorts of categories are not areas where new editors should ever go near for a while. Strikes me that this is where the complaints stem from.

    If you want to be an editor then try somewhere a bit less commercial.

    If you want your site listed in the more 'commercial' areas, be prepared for a wait.

    In the less commercial areas, like mine, I check in every day or so, and new submissions are reviewed and most generally listed, if compliant with the well documented guidelines, as soon as they're submitted. It's the same in most of these sort of areas.

    I'm sorry that the words "arrogant, obnoxious, power-hungry, and self-serving" seem to be the general viewpoints here. But as you say for those of us in the background in a fair number of categories in DMOZ, this isn't the case, a long wait to be listed is not the norm and a lot of us cannot find enough sites to include in our little areas.

    I haven't had a look, but I'd guess most complaints from here come from those wishing to include their site for general financial purposes, one way or another. Hence the complaints frankly.

    Simple, it's not rocket science surely to work that one out.

    I'm off back into the background now, but bear a thought for editors like me the next time you complain. Thanks for listening.
     
    shygirl, Oct 23, 2005 IP
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  12. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #132
    Yes. I do.

    That is, of course, the standard DMOZ response. It isn't true, however. Speaking just for myself, my sites aren't commercial sites to begin with and my criticism of DMOZ is not based on not getting sites listed.
     
    minstrel, Oct 23, 2005 IP
  13. shygirl

    shygirl Guest

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    #133
    That was a quick reply ! :)

    I fail to understand this though

    "Simple, it's not rocket science surely to work that one out.

    That is, of course, the standard DMOZ response".

    Please don't label me or put me in a 'box', spouting standard responses. I'm an intelligent woman and can view my own perspective and opinion on things. I've only been an editor a short while.

    And if you can point me in the direction of any complaint here which is not based on financial or commercial gain then I will stand corrected. No problem. Like I said this isn't my usual sort of place to be posting.

    An explanation of your own grievances if you have the time since you seem to come under this paticular area.

    "Speaking just for myself, my sites aren't commercial sites to begin with and my criticism of DMOZ is not based on not getting sites listed."

    I'd be interested to know what the general nature of your complaints are ?:confused:

    Thanks once again for your reply.
     
    shygirl, Oct 23, 2005 IP
  14. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #134
    I'm not labeling you - please reread my post above. Indeed, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by taking you at face value until or unless you give me reason not to do so. I would hope that you would do the same for me.

    By "the standard DMOZ response", I mean that the standard "Resource Zone" response to any criticism of DMOZ is to discount it as the petulance of a disgruntled webmaster who can't get his site listed. That is simply not true. I am not impugning your motives for becoming an editor but if you believe that to be true you are naive.

    Again, see above -- if you want to read criticisms of DMOZ that are not merely petulant jabs from a disgruntled webmaster, I suggest you do a search on this forum for posts by "minstrel" for the keyword "DMOZ".
     
    minstrel, Oct 23, 2005 IP
  15. compar

    compar Peon

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    #135
    Minstrel,

    Are sure that ShyGirl isn't just TOOTs in another disguise. She seemed to take a pretty good shot at you. It amazing the number of people who do.
     
    compar, Oct 23, 2005 IP
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  16. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #136
    I didn't read her comments as taking a shot, compar. I read them as asking a question.

    Maybe I'm just not as cynical as you...
     
    minstrel, Oct 23, 2005 IP
  17. compar

    compar Peon

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    #137
    Does the expression "none as blind as those who will not see" have any resonance?
     
    compar, Oct 23, 2005 IP
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  18. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #138
    Whatever you say, compar...

    Did you miss the part above where I said, "I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by taking you at face value until or unless you give me reason not to do so."?
     
    minstrel, Oct 23, 2005 IP
  19. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #139
    Far too wordy for him :)
     
    sarahk, Oct 23, 2005 IP
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  20. shygirl

    shygirl Guest

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    #140
    Firstly I have no idea who TOOTS is ?

    Secondly I was indeed only asking a question. I just found all the negativity towards DMOZ here a bit of a surprise.

    Minstrel, I have indeed had a good old read through some of your previous posts, I take my hat off to you for some very well reasoned, measured and insightful comments throughout all the posts I have read here today.

    " are aimed at what are perceived to be flaws in the concept, policies, and structure of the DMOZ organization".

    I see where you are coming from. Taking DMOZ collectively there are a lot of things that could be improved upon.
    Indivdually, however, the critisms aimed at editors in most cases I feel (see my previous posts) are not warrented and indeed can be hurtful to read after one has spent many hours trying their best to contribute to something.

    To improve DMOZ as a whole is not something that is within my power. So I and many editors like me, just stick to doing the best we can with what we've got.

    I guess there's just a big blurry gray line between what the majority of editors do or do not do.... and what DMOZ does or does not do.

    Easily confused, but there is a big difference.

    Bye for now. :)
     
    shygirl, Oct 24, 2005 IP