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Stiffed by a Writer here on DP; What do you writers think?

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by edzachary, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. laurencewins

    laurencewins Peon

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    #21
    This is an interesting thread indeed.

    I am a writer myself and in the middle of a good project.
    I think there will always be a gulf between writers and purchasers.

    However, I also agree that nobody should generalise about writers based on one bad example.

    It is hard when you are working online as there has to be an element of trust from both sides.

    So I will be watching other comments to get a better feel for the place for myself.
    I was recommended to come here and look around and possibly pick up more work for myself too. From what I have seen overall, most people seem to have their heads screwed on the right way.

    Thanks,

    Laurence
     
    laurencewins, Oct 1, 2009 IP
  2. AnniCanClick

    AnniCanClick Active Member

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    #22
    Trust me, Latoya, I'm well aware. But usually, a Paypal request for payment is enough to spur a client into paying; non-physical items disputes usually do end badly though.
     
    AnniCanClick, Oct 1, 2009 IP
  3. Oosha

    Oosha Well-Known Member

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    #23
    I've been stiffed by a buyer who paid for the first batch of articles, ordered a second, and hasn't paid me yet. It's been a month and now he stopped responding to my emails and messages. The amount is not small either.

    I understand where you're coming from. The only way out is to let the writer know that you're going to take it up with Paypal, if they don't issue a refund.
     
    Oosha, Oct 1, 2009 IP
  4. oo87

    oo87 Well-Known Member

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    #24
    Have you given him the articles? If not, you can always use them yourself, as he has refused to pay.
     
    oo87, Oct 2, 2009 IP
  5. averyz

    averyz Well-Known Member

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    #25
    File the Paypal claim.

    She said 24hrs and it has been 10 days ? Plenty of time.

    Yeah she could have got hit by a bus or kidnapped by terrorists but the odds are you got burned.

    I really think DP is kind of random it is a total open market anyone can just make an account and sell stuff. I have seen a few good writers on here and I see a lot of people try to sell writing that can’t even make a legible post.
     
    averyz, Oct 2, 2009 IP
  6. shrine

    shrine Peon

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    #26
    I'm sorry for your lost, I truly do.
    But this thing happens. But please don't ever think that all writers here are like that. You see, from the writers side we also have the same problem like yours. We have completed the job, but then we didn't get the payment. It's a common problem for everybody I guess. iTrader should be a good indication, but sometimes it's still not enough..

    But maybe to help you feel better (and help others NOT to deal with this person) you can post her Screen Name here. IMHO.
     
    shrine, Oct 2, 2009 IP
  7. omshanti

    omshanti Well-Known Member

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    #27
    Believe me, you will always lose money if you're going to hire writers who do not have the confidence to deliver high-quality work, and that too NOT at the rate they really deserve to be paid. This is a game of self-motivation. "Quality pays for itself".

    When you hire a writer, you just don't hire them just because he/she is a writer. You got to see their motivation and performance. And seeing just that isn't enough, you got to hire people "conatively". You got to see their strengths before you even choose a writer.

    Remember if you hire a jack of all, master of none.... you get just that. You got to hire someone who's specifically specialized in your requirement.

    I have seen clients who hire writers for cheap and they suffer JUST LIKE YOU over a period of time. Why? because they pay cheap and that is exactly what they get in return for what they are paying. you hire valuable writers who are trustworthy and you get just that. Value comes at a price.

    If you find an excellent writer to write for you who delivers an amazing landing page / sales letter / article, your investment multiplies but people want to buy quality for cheap.. now that never happens unless you find someone really professional and desperate at the same time with low self esteem to charge a low price. However, that wouldn't even satisfy you as a buyer long term neither would the writer be happy to be paid peanuts for high-quality work. If you can't value someone, you won't be able to value your strengths as well.

    If you sow seeds for prosperity, you become prosperous. What you were offering the writer may be an amount that didn't really satisfy the writer's wants but maybe the writer wanted the money desperately which is why he/she agreed. Now it is unprofessional for the writer to not reply you back and not complete the work assigned. However, you require to add the person on IM somehow without his/her knowledge and chat with the writer to see whether the writer is willing to complete the assignment. Lastly, let the writer know that you will have to take action against him/her before you take action. There are chances that the writer may be facing some issues. Before you do anything, just let the writer know.

    Fact is... if you hire writers who have recommendations on their facebook, linkedin, twitter and blog; it proves they are credible. I'd taken a clients recommendations and one of my client was overjoyed that he sent out a tweet on twitter telling everyone how overjoyed he was with the work delivered by me.

    Honestly, if you find specialized writers and are willing to pay for the quality of work you want you are going get just that.

    Honestly, I've written an affiliate's product landing page before for one of our members here who hired me. It converted 2.5% but the client payed me peanuts (less than $150.00) and therefore valued me less than my real worth. However the same client came to me asking me to write his next landing page for FREE. I refused to take that step down. Why? the landing page was worth writing for $500.00 and he started to bargain a price which suited his budget. I wouldn't go for clients who do not value a writers work. After all, it's a matter of self-satisfaction, self-confidence and self-esteem. If you value my work, I'll work for you ~ as simple as that.

    If you want quality, you got to pay for it. Hire only those who can perform and deliver. After all, time is more valuable than money. And so is skill. It's not money, it's motivation. It's the experience which matters most, not the money.

    I'd been stiffed by a client before who agreed to pay after the work is done but did not pay. I got the articles removed from where they were published. Writers as well experience the same thing with clients. This means you must feel confident before you hire writers. If you made a choice feeling confident and then you did not find the writer to meet the standards required, you require to introspect your decision. If you need further help, Feel free to post here and I'll answer your questions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2009
    omshanti, Oct 2, 2009 IP
  8. Oosha

    Oosha Well-Known Member

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    #28
    Yes, I did send him the articles. As he was leaving on vacation the next day, I thought it made sense to send the articles and get paid before he left. Most of the articles have been published too.

    I've been writing for many years and this is the first time something like this has happened. I guess I was asking for it.

    I know a Paypal claim can be filed if a buyer makes an upfront payment but the writer doesn't deliver. However, I'm not sure what can be done when a writer sends the articles but doesn't get paid.

    Any ideas?
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2009
    Oosha, Oct 2, 2009 IP
  9. oo87

    oo87 Well-Known Member

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    #29
    Try contacting his host about the articles that he has published and ask for them to be removed, I suppose. He didn't pay for them, so he doesn't own them. You do. You can claim copyright infringement, and normally hosts will just remove the content rather than risk getting in the middle of a possible lawsuit.

     
    oo87, Oct 2, 2009 IP
  10. PadPaws

    PadPaws Greenhorn

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    #30
    Interesting thread :)

    As a writer, I don't find the comments about the market place here a problem - it's absolutely, 100% true. I've seen threads where people have asked for $0.1c/word and have had replies asking why they're worth "so much" - it's truly shocking.

    However, this place is about supply and demand. You want to buy an article from me on one of my specialist subjects? Okay, you'll be paying triple figures. You want me to bang out ten quick articles on dating or something, which are written well and to my usual quality... but don't require the research I'd put into a space or history article? That's fine.

    I like this forum. I started freelancing the "traditional" way, with a project or two a month, which kept me in shoes. Yet that work is extremely, extraordinarily hard. A 500 word article on Tudor history will take me a day, and then I have absolute fear with the client. Here, it's just "here's a keyword, write an article". I like that, it's much less pressured.

    I could never make a living here, and my main income comes elsewhere. Yet at the same time, I'm trying to build my own content blog (I say "content" because on DP, a blog is for flipping and Adsense, apparently) on the moon landings. That's where I want to be, so in the mean time, I freelance for clients. I work cheaply here, I work well, and I supplement my income while giving myself more time to work on my little project.

    What I'm trying, in a very long-winded manner, to say is that not everyone here is trying to make a living off $0.1c/word articles. If someone does appear to be getting all their work off DP - worry! No one could live off that, it's impossible. If you pay cheap, you'll get cheap. Yet I don't find it offensive to be lumped in with the idea of a poor market place. That's just fact.

    To the OP, file a PayPal dispute and smack the iTrader - that can't be allowed to happen. Even on a relatively open-ended deadline, 10 days is ridiculous.
     
    PadPaws, Oct 2, 2009 IP
  11. cjaccardi

    cjaccardi Active Member

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    #31
    what do you want written ? I will write it
     
    cjaccardi, Oct 3, 2009 IP
  12. marketingmutt

    marketingmutt Peon

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    #32
    I understand your frustration. However you will find the same challenge on all of the major marketplaces. As a writer I often have the opposite problem - "Dead Beat" buyers. Although, I resist the urge to label DP as full of sub-standard business owners and buyers....

    Lower the hammer - itrader ding and paypal complaint (even chargeback)

    Stan
     
    marketingmutt, Oct 4, 2009 IP
  13. happy_dayz

    happy_dayz Peon

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    #33
    I write articles for a living- and I definitely have not offered my services like this, and what I would suggest for you in the future, is to ask for samples beforehand, or ask to at least have 5 of the articles before you actually pay anything. Paying 50% upfront, without actually having seen what they are going to do for you directly, seems quite off putting to me, to be honest.

    If a writer is not willing to come to terms with something like the above- then understand that he/she is either lazy or would easily con you. To me samples don't do enough either- especially if you are asking for articles in a different topic than the samples he/she provided... so it's really best to try and see the work you are going to be paying for as it progresses.

    If they have a trust issue against you, then leave it be- because its them who needs your services, not the other way around. But I am sure you have well learned your lesson.
     
    happy_dayz, Oct 4, 2009 IP
  14. dbishop103

    dbishop103 Member

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    #34
    I'd say send her a PM and tell her you will either file a complaint with PayPal and ding her iTrader account and make her name known publicly for not following through on her commitment or she A) return the deposit or B) complete the job. Whether you get the money back or not isn't as much the issue as the fact that if she ripped you off, she WILL rip others off.

    Online reputation is paramount to building a successful online career. Hers can ruined quickly by not doing what she promises to do. As well it should. Yours isn't the only job at stake here.

    As to hiring other writers, you can't generalize that broadly. Sure, you need to be picky. And yes, it can be hard to find quality writers, but that doesn't mean you give up. I'm a professional writer, have been for many years, published in Woman's Day, Publish and other major print magazines. I still frequent DP and other sites where I find jobs because I CHOOSE to work for and with clients who need my help more than cilents who pay higher rates. :)
     
    dbishop103, Oct 5, 2009 IP
  15. hersmart4ever

    hersmart4ever Active Member

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    #35
    I am a writer and you should see my iTrader. This only means there are decent writers here. You should have checked first what people are saying about this writer before hiring her.
     
    hersmart4ever, Oct 6, 2009 IP
  16. IndigoMediaProductions

    IndigoMediaProductions Active Member

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    #36
    In summary, you need to research your writer more then they will research your article. Alternatively hire someone like myself and end threads like these. Give me a PM if your work is still unfinished.
     
    IndigoMediaProductions, Oct 8, 2009 IP
  17. internetauthor

    internetauthor Peon

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    #37
    I'd send a PM with this thread URL. She's likely reading the preview of the PMs without actually responding to them. Give her the benefit of the doubt once more that she simply isn't aware of how to be professional - showing her the tread will either light a fire under her to at least respond with a (too late) excuse or produce the work. If she still fails to respond, proceed with the negative iTrader and PayPal dispute if you feel it's worth the effort.

    There is no problem with paying a writer upfront, and there is nothing unrealistic about a twenty-four hour turnaround. Testing multiple writers will have consequences, usually just bad material, but sometimes you get stiffed. It happens.

    I'm a writer and I agree that the market is rather subpar in regards to certain styles of writing and very much in certain kinds of webmasters. Unless you're easily offended or not confident in your own abilities, there is no reason to abuse the OP for the comment - it's true. DP's actually discussed on smaller forums as one of many sources of cheap labor - quality negotiable.

    If that's not you - great, show your stuff and be the exception. Many posters in this section do so on a very regular basis. If it is you, that's okay, too. There is a huge need for cheap, basic work. Don't get your feathers ruffled either way.

    Like others, I like a handful of threads in the Copywriting section, but you have to sift through quite a bit of junk to even find those now as well. There are far too many people boosting post counts in most of the threads for my taste, so I can see where the OP would get a bad taste in his mouth.

    From my personal experience, writers of a certain quality are usually sharing genuine advice and opinions in the treads, but might start an advertisement thread occasionally as well. I know of a handful of great writers on this forum and a handful of others on a much smaller community that might suit your needs in regard to voice - one in particular springs to mind who is well known on another forum for powerful material (and it's not me or you, for those with such blatant "marketing" attempts). PM if you'd like his contact information - not sure what your budget is for the work you're seeking - he's middle of the road price-wise.
     
    internetauthor, Oct 13, 2009 IP
  18. amarventris

    amarventris Peon

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    #38
    i charge $4 for blog posts of 400 word original and well written.
    Why were you paying anyone $50?
     
    amarventris, Oct 13, 2009 IP
  19. cityslickermom

    cityslickermom Peon

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    #39
    I agree with latoya. give her last time to update you the progress, if not hear a feedback, than fill a paypal dispute.
     
    cityslickermom, Oct 14, 2009 IP
  20. omshanti

    omshanti Well-Known Member

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    #40
    This is NOT a cheap writer sales thread. Please do not posts sales messages here.

    This is a forum to discuss copywriting. If you don't have something to share, just learn from reading what has been posted.
     
    omshanti, Oct 14, 2009 IP