Stiffed by a Writer here on DP; What do you writers think?

I responded to a post by a writer soliciting work about ten days or so ago in the copywriting services section here on DP. In the post, the writer promised a 24-hour turn around time as well as terms, which included half payment up front via PayPal.

I looked at her samples, started a discussion and hired her for a nice little piece of project work, which would, according to her terms, net the writer about $50 or so and would give me several brief blog posts for a project. I did tell her I didn't expect them in 24-hours thinking that if I didn't impose the promised deadline I might encourage better quality work.

I think, however, that I have been stiffed. I haven't heard back from her at all and have sent her several PMs, which I know she has seen because it shows that she has been online after I sent them to her.

I'm just wondering what you all think about this. I've had dozens of transactions here on DP from buying and selling sites to hiring out for services from a variety of folks, from designers to programmers to writers.

To be honest, I've never had much luck here finding decent writers. Many here are not native English writers or just never invest the time I need for compelling content (the writer's pool is too obsessed with the webmasters here who thinking writing for search engines is actually writing).

But for all my bad luck here with writers I've never had one stiff me. They may not have been high quality but they've always valued the trade and worked hard to meet their published terms.

Until now.

My question is this: what should I do at this point? It's been ten days. Do I just file a complaint with PayPal and ding her iTrader and take it as a lessoned learned?

Or do I give up on writers in the DP market all together?

I write and edit for a living but have never taken a project here because this market just can't afford me and I can't afford to eat based on what people pay here. I know and understand well the difficulty in landing decent project work. But at the same time I operate nearly 40 websites and I buy writing all the time and I'm constantly on the prowl for the right kind of voice. I'm stunned that someone who purports to be a professional, even in a sub-standard writer's market like DP, would act this way and spoil it for everyone else here.

 

the truth is you will find these kind of people in every market but this doesn't say that every one is bad. Some people do true business here, make reputation for that and this can't be deny. Its our luck or mind through which type of person we pass by. I think this was your bad luck or you were not much careful before the deal,

Also is that member to whom you deal was a reputed member of here, if yes then most probably it was your bad luck as those people don't betray but if that was a newbie then I think you are messed up this time.

 

The writer could have a legitimate reason for not having the work done, but no matter the reason, it's not an excuse for not communicating with you about missing the deadline.

At this point, I would make a final request (via email if you can) to send the work or refund the money within a certain amount of time, e.g. 24 hours. If I didn't hear back from the writer after that time, I would go ahead and submit a Paypal dispute.

If this is the only writer who's stiffed you, I wouldn't give up on DP writers all together. I'd hire based on the people posting in this forum. From what I've seen, they're usually full-time freelancers who have to do a good job or else they'd starve.

 

So you paid half up front? Was her iTrader decent? Sorry for your poor experience, don't let it be an indication of the 'worth' of other writers here. I would certainly ding the iTrader (so other DPers don't get 'taken') and submit a complaint with PayPal.

 

That's a little harsh, don't you think? I find that offensive.

I know that you're probably a little annoyed, but that doesn't justify insulting the whole community. While many of the writers here at DP are sub-standard, others are very competent and hardworking.

Did you realise that each DP writer is an individual with unique aptitudes? Just because you have had negative experiences with certain DP writers, it doesn't mean that you can paint every other DP writer as 'sub-standard'.

It can be equally argued that you have had negative experiences because you've been making poor hiring decisions.

 

Has the writer been on DP since they've been AWOL? Perhaps they are dealing with an offline problem and have not been able to contact you?

And as others have already said, not all of the writers that frequent DP are poor quality writers with a lack of professionalism.

If I may make a suggestion, rather than rely upon "writers" who are making solicitations threads, you may wish to pay more attention to forum posts where you thought the response was thoughtful and well-written and approach the writer via PM to see if they would be willing to write for you.

 

I wouldn't give up, because some of us are genuinely good and reliable writers who happen to advertise here, among other places. But the occasional rip-off is something that has become a part of Internet life, sadly. I have been stiffed by a few buyers, and it is infuriating in the extreme. But, in the end, posting a negative iTrader and moving on to the next one is your best bet. Make sure to put a comment in her sales thread, if she has one opened.

 

You can always file a dispute with Paypal, if isn't returning any of your messages. That will surely get her attention. Then if she doesn't respond give Paypal all the resources you can on the situation.

I have been burned more times than I can count but that is the reason, I have a team of good writers. It's just the price of doing business

 

I don't know why clients do this, but it bugs me. Writers like deadlines. We like them so much we make up time guarantees and charge by the hour. Deadlines fit on a calendar. Deadlines provide motivation. Deadlines get you your stuff delivered on time.

If she says she can do it in 24 hours, then make her do it in 24 hours. Quality has nothing to do with time spent. It's time spent wisely.

I don't think you're looking hard enough, to be completely honest. If you're repeatedly finding low-quality writers...then you have to have a definition of a low quality writer down-pact. You really need to spend some time asking yourself: can these writers deliver what they promise?

Then why are you hiring them?

First of all, you expect the market to be substandard, and so it is. Congratulations on meeting your expectations in deciding on a hiring market. Secondly, if you write and edit for a living, if you know that you keep picking bad writers, if you know that they are low quality...then why? Why why why why why? Why keep picking low quality writers? Why not ask for recommendations? Why complain when one of the obviously (it must be obvious because you keep mentioning it) low-quality/sub-standard writers finally gips you. They're low quality. It's what they do, right?

Man I sympathize in that you got ripped off, but why?

 

I'm not really upset about the money, it wasn't that much frankly. I'm just frustrated with what I find here overall. I frequent a number of writer markets, even have ads of my own "out there". But there's an element here that I think spoils it for everyone else -- an element that I think is unique to DP. Yes, I have found some good writers here and a few have gone on to regular work in our projects. But not like other venues. To be fair, this isn't a traditional writer's venue, it is a broader, more mixed community and you get a lot of folks here who crossover from other skill areas just because they can make a nickel. I get that. Writing is, I think, one of the more difficult areas to make money, especially online, because people don't respect it. Yet text is the currency of the Internet, the veritable guts of every website. I wish it were more respected in communities like this one.

As for the "why?", well it is pretty simple: I need unique voices and finding writers is kind of like looking for a decent singer. Lots of people can write but few are talented with that unique quality you seek. So you look in all kinds of places -- you have to. I try a lot of writers out and this is yet another place that puts me in front of many of them. I just find my luck here with writers in particular wanting.

Sorry if my sharing this experience has upset some of you. That wasn't my intent.

 

That is not the reason why everyone's upset with you. It is because you have grossly generalized while evaluating the entire community of writers on this forum and that too in a bad way. Sure DP is a mixed bag but I will completely agree with SneakyHeathen when she says that you got what you were expecting.

It sounds to me like you have been responding to the ads that promise (impossibly) quick turn around, cheap-rates and bulk discounts. Forgive the presumption but it seems like you have been searching in a flea market and expecting to find a gem each and every time.

Truth is that if you think you are in a flea market, there's a 99% chance that you will find garbage. If you want gems all the time, be more discerning. Find the places where the better and the best writers hang out. You say you are a writer and a good one too, going by your words. It should not be hard for you to spot others of your kind.

The BST is not the only place you know. Most of the good writers here hardly ever advertise there. The ones who do are few and (very) far between because they don't need to look for gigs every week.

I am sorry that you lost money (and yes, it wasn't all that much) but please do not generalize by saying that an entire community is sub-standard. Nothing is absolute, nothing can be.

 

I am not upset, mostly because arguing online takes time and energy not found within this particular human body. I am simply perplexed. I have an acquaintance who frequents McDonalds, but is always upset at the service he receives, or the lines of people, or other elements. He is upset because this happens everytime. My question was...if you know it's going to happen, why not just go to Wendy's?

If you know (or truly believe) that you cannot find good writers here...go someplace else. Or better yet, stop reading sales threads. This particular forum (copywriting) is the only forum I post in on DP. Because it's the only forum that holds value and relevance for me. Were I to hire a writer, I would come here first, and see who's the best at expressing themselves, then contact them for details.

Don't buy cars from a used car salesmen. Get the carfax.

Don't buy writers from a sales thread. Learn about them and how they post, where they post, what they post. Yeah?

 

I realize this is off-topic, but Wendy's baked potato with a side of small chili wins over anything at McDonald's any day.

 

Er...no. I've been here a long time and have had dozens of transactions. I believe my generalizations based upon that experience is pretty valid. I would NOT have been surprised if the quality of the worked I hired for was not good -- in that, you are right, it was more of what I expected. But I WAS surprised, and I think I said this in my original post, that I was completely stood-up on the project. That has never happened to me before here and that was the point of my original question: is that what this market place is coming to for writers?

Wrong. I was looking for talent and the references provided seemed to be hopeful for what I was looking for. I generally find my best writers by word of mouth but occasionally I will stumble on something I like and start a conversation. In this case, she happened to post an ad soliciting work.

I am a buyer. This was another disappointing experience here. I shared that experience because my opinion is that this is getting worse not getting better. Had I taken this question to other editors or even to webmasters I would have received a completely different response. I didn't take my question there though. I brought it here as a buyer because I wanted writers to see -- right or wrong -- how a buyer feels about this venue.

So I knew it might upset some. Fine. But on the other hand, I have since received a number of private personal inquiries as a result of this thread from sincere folks with strong portfolios that I will explore. So my generalizations about the community weren't all bad...

I've found good writers via the sales threads too. Isn't it a broad generalization as well to say I can't find good writers there?

 

Considering your own testimonials, obviously not. I'm just saying it's been more lucrative for myself to build relationships from people I know and trust, and who make themselves visible, and not from advertisements.

 

Aww, sweety. That's really too bad. As a writer I can honestly say I've never "stiffed" a client, but I adhere to a strict personal belief, --25% deposit, or no work, period. That scares a lot of people away, but I feel that if you're trustworthy, then such a small amount shouldn't be a problem. Also, as a writer who uses DP on occasion, I have often been "stiffed" by clients. I was actually writing about it just the other day.

As a project manager I can absolutely sympathize: I have so far, in my years of using DP to find writers, found one, out of probably a hundred or so. One good writer, period. And as far as "building relationships with people I know and trust", --I -never- hire people I know. And you shouldn't either; hiring friends, or loose acquaintances who offer to work for you is NEVER a good idea. Friends and acquaintances are too quick to assume "...well, he/she won't mind if I'm a -little- late..." and so on. Unfortunately, hiring out of DP is trial and error, unless you want to fork over the cash for a real professional writer already working under a legit an LLC business name.

 

There are many professional writers who are not operating under LLCs. They may be sole props, S corps, etc. and there is nothing that says a writer with an LLC or any other business structure won't flake.

Edzachary--if your writer doesn't meet the deadline or respond to contact, then it's perfectly appropriate to file a complaint with Paypal. As for finding a reliable writer, I wish there were an easy answer but you probably know as well as I do that there is really no way to guarantee that, just as we writers can't guarantee that our new clients won't stiff us for the balance of our work.

If you know anyone else who has hired one or more writers for a long period of time your best bet is to ask them to refer you to their long-term, dependable writers.

 

I won't debate with Y.L. --she's one of the people I want to be like "when I grow up", lol. She's right, but I do prefer someone with a few legitimate business references; their own blog, a company name, testimonials on their site (which I don't have because I am too scatterbrained to manage my own site, thus making me a dirty hypocrite), etc..

As for filing a complaint with Paypal, she makes an excellent point here, but my dilemma earlier with a client, was not knowing what their Paypal address was. I'm really tempted to give away the contact info of one of my competitors, but I'm not gonna. I just recently hooked her up with work, and you know, you can't spoil the people you're supposed to be competing with, lol.

 

Unfortunately, Paypal is not as helpful in resolving disputes when you're on the selling end. They require the item in the transaction to be a physical item that can be shipped.

 

I think a few of you are taking the OP the wrong way. He said that the DP is a sub-standard MARKET, not that the people are all sub-standard. If he is just referring to the BST section, he is right, it is very much a sub-standard market. I've never seen writers devalued to the extent that happens here in any other forum that I frequent.

Are there some very good writers to be found here? Certainly. I myself have answered the occasional ad here, when someone appears to know the value of a good writer at least somewhat. I've had a couple of very good writers do some work for me and I've had many that are not up to the task for the quality I am looking for.

The best places to find decent writers here is in other sections, by reading their posts and checking out their signatures.