Something to think about ~ Illegal immigration

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Colbyt, Sep 2, 2007.

  1. Jerlene.net

    Jerlene.net Prominent Member

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    #21
    Seems you know nearly nothing, if anything t all, about the situation.
     
    Jerlene.net, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  2. Codythebest

    Codythebest Notable Member

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    #22
    My wife has a valid visa, she's in TN and SHE CANNOT drive legally...
    Maybe she should be illegal to drive then???

    Legal channels are for a very few...For the majority, these channels do not even exist. That's why they are so many illegals...
     
    Codythebest, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  3. tesla

    tesla Notable Member

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    #23
    This country has over 300 million, we don't need any more immigrants. The only people we should allow into the U.S. are those who are highly trained and educated, not poor people who will just end up on welfare, drive down the wages, and bog the system down.

    The majority of these immigrants are extremely poor and uneducated, the governments of their home countries should take care of them, and not make it the responsibility of the United States. They always talk about how immigrants "do jobs American s won't do, but if you pay me $15 per hour to pick tomatoes, I will. The reality is, they do jobs Americans won't do because the pay is so low, and the illegals are being exploited by corporations.
     
    tesla, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  4. Codythebest

    Codythebest Notable Member

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    #24
    I agree. I left my country because foreigners have more rights than me.
    Now, the US education is already extremely low. My guess is the government wants it that way, making sure that it can control the population. It works very well so far. Americans have even voted twice for the dude. They are low educated, understand little and it works well for the country. Accepting brains will make it worse for locals.
    If America does not need anymore immigrants, first thing is to stop visas and close ambassies right now. Just say: " No more, thank you, just stay home. If you'll pass, you go to jail and then deported."
    I made a company in the US, hiring US people and I have no rights whatsoever. That's not good. The way to go is: 'Don't come, don't hire people, stay home."
     
    Codythebest, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  5. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #25
    The United States legally admits between 700000 and 900000 legal immigrants each year

    There are 12 million illegals in the US and New York City has 500,000 illegal aliens.

    Illegals do get free medical care and education

    They also have 7.65% of their paycheck withheld for Social Security and they will have to be paid the money back if they are legalized.

    Business wants cheap labor. The farming interests in the west need illegals to harvest the crops. However, the problem is that most of the illegals quicky learn they can make more $$$ doing construction and landscaping and leave. Thus there is a constant demand for more illegals.

    About 12% of the entire African-American male population in the United States aged 25 to 29 is incarcerated

    There is a failure of the system. It costs approx $50,000 per year to incarcerate a prisioner and the lost labor needs to be replaced with "imported" labor

    The big problem is that we have an institutionalized system of illegal immigration. If you give ammensty to the 12 million that are here now, another 12 million replacements will have to be imported.
     
    bogart, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  6. leandar

    leandar Well-Known Member

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    #26
    leandar, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  7. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #27
    see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_culture
     
    bogart, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  8. shaun12345

    shaun12345 Banned

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    #28
    Here in england immigration is pretty bad its not bad for them they lead a better life they will work for 12 hours a day for min wage and as a result of this they take peoples jobs in a way it is fair if they work for less hire them but it makes it alot harder toget a normal (dead end) job in england i was unemployed for a long time in my earlyer life then i found sales now i am currently living of savings making it as a webmaster :)
     
    shaun12345, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  9. tesla

    tesla Notable Member

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    #29
    This is a very clever argument that illegals and proponents of increased immigration use, and unless you know your history, you won't be able to provide an answer to it. First, there is a big difference between true Native Americans and Mexicans, Russians, Chinese, and all the other people who are immigrating here illegally. For the sake of simplicity, I will focus on Latin Americans, since they make up the majority of people who are here illegally.

    I think that Native Americans are "true" Americans in the sense of the word. They do deserve to be here, especially since their lands were taken by European settlers when they arrived to this country. However, there are a number of facts that I should point out:

    1. Less than 5% of the U.S. population is Native American.
    2. Blacks were bought here as slaves, and are separated from Africa by many generations. Therefore, they are as American as apple pie.
    3. Illegals from Latin America shouldn't be confused with Native Americans. Someone from Mexico or Guatemala is not Native American in the true sense of the world. They are not the same as Apache, Cherokee, or Sioux.

    Many illegals in this country who preach about "immigration rights" try to use the Native Americans as a tool. They say that "this was once our land, and since the Europeans stole it from us, we have the right to come here without going through normal immigration channels."

    First off, while it is true that Mexico owned much of the Southwest, a bunch of wars and treaties conducted between them and the U.S. handed all these territories over to U.S. control. Therefore, you can't use the excuse that just because your people owned a certain part of the U.S. 200 years ago, that gives you the right to immigrate here illegally today. The fact of the matter is that Mexico gave up its lands.

    Also, anyone who knows their history should know that Native Americans(Present Day United States) and Central Americans(Mexico and Central America) had brutal wars prior to the arrival of the Europeans, and much of this fighting was over land. Before Mexico owned the Southwest, the Native Americans owned it, so you're right in the sense that true Native Americans can lay claim to this land. But again, Native Americans should not be confused with Latin Americans entering the country illegally. They are not the same group of people. They have a different culture, language, and history.
     
    tesla, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  10. glendowney

    glendowney Notable Member

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    #30
    Yes it is pretty bad in England, especially when you are young and studying to get a job.
     
    glendowney, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  11. tesla

    tesla Notable Member

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    #31
    The same thing that is happening in the U.S. is also happening in England. The governments of both countries intentionally allow illegals to flood over the borders. They have no intention of stopping it.

    Just because business wants cheap labor, doesn't mean they have the right to get it. The farming interests in the west don't need illegals to harvest the crops. Americans can do it if they are paid a wage which allows them to sustain themselves.

    The bottom line is that they are breaking the law by entering the country illegally, and the companies that hire them are breaking the law as well. If the U.S. government actually enforced immigration laws, and seriously went after companies that broke them, these companies would have no choice but to hire Americans to do the job. Let me give you an example.....

    Lets say you run a farm or some business where you're making money, but you're breaking the law by hiring illegals. If the government suddenly hit you with a massive fine, say in the millions of dollars, and cause you to have to file for bankruptcy, other companies would think twice about hiring illegals. They would realize that the consequences of getting caught would be too severe, and hiring Americans would suddenly become en vogue.

    Also, lets be honest. Many of these companies exploit the illegals. These immigrants barely make enough to survive, and the people who own these companies are making a killing. It really isn't fair. Here is basically what happens.

    1. Government doesn't enforce immigration laws, and allows illegals to flood over the border.

    2. Corporations, many of which lobby and pay for government officials, hire the illegals to save money in health benefits, raises, and a bunch of other perks.

    3. The wages for the job are driven down, and Americans, who cannot afford to live on the wages that these companies pay, refuse to work these jobs. Then the companies turn around and say that they NEED illegals, because "they do jobs Americans won't do."

    4. The U.S. economy continues to stagnate. Because illegals often don't pay taxes, and end up on welfare(because of their low paying jobs) they put further strain on the system. Americans have to pay the illegal's share of the taxes, which isn't fair.


    As you can see, the only parties that benefit in this situation is the Corporations and the U.S. government. Both Americans and illegal immigrants lose. They are the victims. The illegal immigrants are exploited, and Americans are faced with a heavy tax burden and competition from the illegals. The corporations make a killing in the money they save, and the U.S. government(which is now largely controlled by corporations) makes money as well.

    As a side note, historically, countries and civilizations haven't faired well when they allowed illegals to flood their countries. A classic example of this is Rome. One of the reasons why Rome declined was its increased dependence on immigrants, especially in their army.
     
    tesla, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  12. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #32
    There's a lot of evidence that southern Europeans first settled the Americas 21,000-15,000 years and later were assimilated by peoples migrating by way of Siberia.

    The biggest problem with illegal immigration is that the employeer is not paying the true cost of the illegal worker and the taxpayer is subsidizing big Business and the rich (maids, landscapers, gardeners, cooks. handymen etc). The cost to the American taxpayer is approx $100 billion a year

    Most illegal aliens work in the underground economy and pay no taxes

    Some of the hidden costs are Public Education K-12, food stamps, ESL and Bilingual Education, Housing, Earned Income Tax Credit, Criminal Justice and Corrections, Medicaid, Medicare etc
     
    bogart, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  13. leandar

    leandar Well-Known Member

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    #33
    21,000-15-000 years and 19th century have big difference .

    every humans first species were born in Africa , that don't allow to illegal immigration to that country.
     
    leandar, Sep 3, 2007 IP
  14. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #34
    Why is there a difference? The Romans destroyed Israel 2000 years ago and it came back in 1948
     
    bogart, Sep 4, 2007 IP
  15. tbarr60

    tbarr60 Notable Member

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    #35
    How about the cost of reduced quality of life? My neighborhood has seen a family with two vehicles move out and a group of people with 4 to 7 vehicles move in. This has happened with several houses. I need to stalk my own front curb starting Wednesday night to get a spot for my Friday trash/recycling pick up or else there will be a 1994 Mercury Sable taking up the space. How about the cost of my child enduring enduring a lot of foul language from the children of illegals? She figures there parents aren't teaching them much English so they end up using more profanity.

    And how about the time and gas wasted when we get stuck behind that dude with the Dodgers cap pulled down low on driving 55 in a 65 mph zone? Amigo, if you want to be inconspicuous in southern California, drive 80 mph and hold a cell phone to your ear!
     
    tbarr60, Sep 4, 2007 IP
  16. leandar

    leandar Well-Known Member

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    #36
    anyway i said immigration is NOT illegal why ? this world for everyone ...., i agree that don't allow to brake the low.

    Loka Samasta Sukhino Bhavantu ( Let All Be Happy )
     
    leandar, Sep 4, 2007 IP
  17. tbarr60

    tbarr60 Notable Member

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    #37
    If this world is for everyone and I come and take your car or bike and take some money out of your pocket you will say "Let All Be Happy". :D:confused:
     
    tbarr60, Sep 4, 2007 IP
  18. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #38
    Here's the problem. If you give the 12 million illegal aliens amnesty , the businesses that are hiring them will bring in another 12 million.

    Most of these illegal aliens are not making enough to live on without some kind of public assistance.

    Big Business has freinds and congress and "Joe Six-Pack" gets left with the bill.

    Another thing to think of. We haven't had a deep recession since 1981. I wonder how this will play out should the housing bubble completely blow up. In fact a lot of these guys work in construction and I doubt that they have unemployment insurance.
     
    bogart, Sep 5, 2007 IP
  19. tbarr60

    tbarr60 Notable Member

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    #39
    Most illegal aliens don't require 500 sqft per person like Americas do. Move 3 families into a house, if there are 6 bread winners they do fine.

    I am not sure what big businesses are hiring them. I see them gardening, working fast food, working hospitality and other low end jobs. I don't think GE, Microsoft, Google, Untied Technologies, General Motors and others hire a whole lot of illegals.
     
    tbarr60, Sep 5, 2007 IP
  20. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #40
    Here's the economic problem. The house pays x amount of property tax for 6x the services required

    Last December, 6 Swift & Co. meat packing plants in 6 states had 1000 illegal aliens arrested

    "In fact, a meat-packing job paid $19 an hour in 1980, but today that same job pays closer to $9 an hour" - see http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/01/dobbs.immigrantprotests/index.html
     
    bogart, Sep 5, 2007 IP