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Sites being heavily penalized by Google

Discussion in 'Search Engine Optimization' started by WabbyTwax, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. Homer

    Homer Spirit Walker

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    #81
    It would seem to me that their really isn't much argument about Google, at the very least, raising a suspicious eyebrow at ALL linking. What I mean is any IBL or OBL are be looked at more closely than we even know.

    I have seen enough to feel confident in saying that today's link schemes (call it what you want but at the end Google will see it as such, IMO) are busted. If I was to suggest the next level, here's my 2 cents...

    1) Not in the public eye.
    2) User can pick links they want to point to them.
    3) Get rid of .txt file that contains links, user can loging and DL it once per week or whatever.
    4) No 3,4,5 in a row footer placement ( I think footer links have less value)
    EDIT 5) Weighing formula that is not 100% based on what Google thinks, perhaps factor in other Se's based on market share.

    People on this and other threads are not getting this fact...Google has said 'ENOUGH OF BOGUS LINKING'. What are we doing about it? Above are only a few of my thoughts. In the meatime I have completely withdrawn from these schemes at the risk of a temporary crumble in my empire, but I think the risk is far greater to continue to use tools that have been slated for assasination.
     
    Homer, Jun 27, 2006 IP
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  2. The Webmaster

    The Webmaster IdeasOfOne

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    #82
    yepp, I agree, I dont think google would put manual effort to see, if all the sites in coop or LV marked the links as "Sponsored" or "Advertisment".

    Funny thing is, my other site went down almost every page got de-indexed in google(6 pages being shown now, used to be 1500+ pages)

    And I cant find my site within TOP 1000th possition for most of my keyword.
    even if I search my site name search all other pages, with the name/link of my site come for top 20 possition. And this site has nothing to do with Coop.
     
    The Webmaster, Jun 27, 2006 IP
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  3. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #83
    That was my feeling last fall. The Coop was my first and only foray into artifical linking. I used it on two sites. On one, I don't think anything really changed. On the other, I seemed to get an initial boost which then plateaued and began to slide.

    Is it possible that what we're seeing right now has nothing to do with the Coop? Certainly. It's doubtful but it's possible. But if not now, sooner or later any PR benefit will disappear and it's coneceivable that there may be greater penalties than just discounted PR.

    I decided last fall that it's just not worth the risk. YMMV.
     
    minstrel, Jun 27, 2006 IP
  4. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #84
    As I and others have said, Big Daddy is about a lot more than linking schemes. The site most affected by Big Daddy for me is also one that isn't in the Coop.
     
    minstrel, Jun 27, 2006 IP
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  5. The Webmaster

    The Webmaster IdeasOfOne

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    #85
    But is it a flaw of Big Daddy or is it a good thing??
    if all the sites being panelized for bogus linking, then what is the definition of bogus linking??
    Does Google want us to go the way that ihelpyou forum guys are suggesting??
    because even if your site is good, its very hard to get 'Natural Relevent One way' link intially. and if sites are being panelized for such matters, then the question is, "What is going to happen to link sales" ??
     
    The Webmaster, Jun 27, 2006 IP
  6. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #86
    I don't think Google has ever made any secret of the fact that they disapprove of link schemes and are always working to discount them.

    Indeed. I would target link relevance - at the least, it's a good starting point.

    I never go to that forum - what are they suggesting?

    I don't know and I don't care, frankly. I've never bought or sold a link in my life and if link-sellers disappear I won't shed any tears.
     
    minstrel, Jun 27, 2006 IP
  7. Big Richard

    Big Richard Peon

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    #87
    I think the linking has to do with several things not just one:
    - link churn - the rate at which a document/webpage aquires and losses links
    - link relevancy - is the link on theme with the content
    - target link page - is the link going to a spammy page
    - anchor text changes - how it changes over time
    - link location - if the link is in the main page text or is it in the footer
    - link use - is the link actually used by the web user
    - link networking - is the link part of a network
    - reciprocal linking - is the link reciprocal

    There are probably a host of other things, but I think the death nell has sounded for gaining easy SERP's through link exchanges.

    I don't see to much of an issue with buying links - provided they are themed to the site etc. I think it is all about quality and relevance now - where it used to be just a numbers game ( which is where the COOP worked ) or PR boosting which is where link dealers came in. I'm not going to shed any tears - just work on my content from now on - it seems every little new SEO trick gets a shorter and shorter life spam and the only thing that is sustainable and works consistently is quality content.

    I also think we have just seen the tip of the iceberg and you should expect more crack down on falsly inflaited SERP's through link networks to come. Lets face it, it has been coming for a while and I have personnally been suprised the crackdown has not come a lot sooner.
     
    Big Richard, Jun 27, 2006 IP
  8. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #88
    http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/tell-m...our-backlinks/

    http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/002818.html

    http://www.free-seo-news.com/newsletter177.htm#facts

     
    minstrel, Jun 27, 2006 IP
  9. The Webmaster

    The Webmaster IdeasOfOne

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    #89
    So now it seems that one should be very careful when building links, because now, the things are not the same...
     
    The Webmaster, Jun 27, 2006 IP
  10. Big Richard

    Big Richard Peon

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    #90
    Nice referances Minstral - however there is buying links and there is buying links. If you go to one of the link dealing sites and get some from there then generally you have very little idea of the theme or relevance of the webpage you are buying from - and yes most of these would be easy to spot by google.

    However there is also the case where a website has a few very themed website links, where a buyer can purchase a space. This would be much harder to detect by google and if the webpage would probably have normally linked to your site for free if they had known about it, but you had to introduce yourself and pay a small fee, then there is a very little difference here between a paid and natural link. - along the lines seen at many webmaster forums such as http://www.talkfreelance.com/

    The later I believe will still give you some benifit as long as you site is very themed to the webpage it is on - the former is likely to be a total waste of money.
     
    Big Richard, Jun 27, 2006 IP
  11. Homer

    Homer Spirit Walker

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    #91
    Exactly...I am actually seeing more focus on duplication then anything else. So, in your case, the site that got hit the hardest, think long and hard about some form of duplication. Not to suggest that you would intentionally do such a thing, but maybe you want to take your hardest hit page or site and look to copyscape to see if there are duplicates that you are unaware of :confused:. I know it sounds futile but, in my case, I was simply **SHOCKED** at what I learned. Others can steal your content, spin it and be awarded as the author...while you were the original author :mad:. The result is YOU pay the dup penalty :eek:.

    Sorry, I don't mean to get off topic, but somehow, I feel it relates!


    Cheers

    H
     
    Homer, Jun 27, 2006 IP
  12. The Webmaster

    The Webmaster IdeasOfOne

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    #92
    I did that, and I was shoked to see that it returned about 30 sites using the same text para. When I visited those sites, I found that those sites were scraper sites, scraping my own content.

    Now the question is why should I be panelized if some MFA sites are scraping my content??
     
    The Webmaster, Jun 27, 2006 IP
  13. Homer

    Homer Spirit Walker

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    #93
    I am really sorry to hear that, but I fear that most honest webmasters (ones that actually create their own content) are faced with this today. Is it fair...No F-king way. Does it happen often? Go ahead, anyone else take the test, see what you find :mad:! To me this problem is FAR greater than the linking issue.

    To answer your question directly...I really can't. However I will suggest that you send an email to google kindly outlining your situation. Kindly ask them for a recommendation since YOU are the author and NOT the SPAM basterd rip off artist. Perhaps point them to this and a few other threads that kindly discuss this.

    My feeling around Google's new algo is 2 fold:
    1) Understanding the current spamming state and artificial linking, I see why this must be done.
    2) G-engineers- be prepared to make necessary changes FAST, regarding the innocent bystanders.

    I can't understand how they can quickly decide (through an algo) how a link was obtained. Did I buy it to cheat or advertise? What is the difference? If I am seen as manipulating serps I'm banned :mad:. What is the difference...Google says artificial, I say it's real!! Meaning google is talking from both sides of their mouth. If I bought the link to advertise and it also affected my ranking in a positive way...isn't that effective advertising :confused:. Furthurmore, ummm, what are AdWords? Google licensing themselves to be the ONLY ones that can sell links for their ($$$) version of effective advertising :rolleyes:.

    Sorry, but I see this patent as being candy coated and very self serving that instills a negative perpectual motion more than ever = If you want to succeed online...become a spammer! Seriously, just check serps in your arena. You'll be hard pressed to NOT see spam in the top 10!! So what's the message??


    H
     
    Homer, Jun 27, 2006 IP
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  14. dkessaris

    dkessaris Peon

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    #94
    I was hit hard but the main reason I believe is that my coop weight crashed. The sites where I had coop lost a large number of pages so my weight went from mid xx.xxx to xx that means that the sites I was pointing coop to lost hundreds if not thousand of backlinks in a very small period of time and now I am seeing the result of that, three of my sites that were ranking good (3-5) disappeared from the SERPS at the same time.
    I guess it was fun while it lasted, I can't complain it was my choice to use the coop and I made quite a few money using it but I am afraid that the consequences and the losses will be bigger now, .
     
    dkessaris, Jun 27, 2006 IP
  15. The Webmaster

    The Webmaster IdeasOfOne

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    #95
    After that "Billion pages Scam" do we need to check that??
     
    The Webmaster, Jun 27, 2006 IP
  16. croc

    croc Peon

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    #96
    Selfstyledexpert.

    My 'little site'?

    Oh.. so does everyone who does not cheat the system have to have a 'little site'?

    You would be VERY surprised by my 'ickle site' buddy!

    As for 'whining', am I the one who is slating Google when things are not going my way. "Awwww Gooogllle, please help me, I am the best and I deserve to be at the top, cum awwwwwn"

    It is comical :D

    Croc
     
    croc, Jun 27, 2006 IP
  17. mrconstantine

    mrconstantine Peon

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    #97
    hmm so does it look like our rankings will come back? or are we in deep? I'm thinking of getting a new domain, it seems cookie cutter myspace sites are getting more google traffic than mine which i actually put effort into and update all the time. bummer ey.. i didn't get any benefit from the coop either because I only had it on for about a week.
     
    mrconstantine, Jun 29, 2006 IP
  18. WabbyTwax

    WabbyTwax Peon

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    #98
    Yeah I'm in the process of getting new domains just in case =/
     
    WabbyTwax, Jun 29, 2006 IP
  19. maha

    maha Well-Known Member

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    #99
    This is Google's reply after I submit re-inclusion:

    ----------------
    Websites can fall out of our index for many reasons, including penalization.

    Certain actions such as buying or selling links to increase a site's PageRank value or cloaking - writing text in such a way that it can be seen by search engines but not by users - can result in penalization. Please review our quality guidelines at ...

    blah blah blah..
    ----------------

    Do you think they're trying to give me a hint that it's "link" related (like Co-op)?
     
    maha, Jun 29, 2006 IP
  20. Big Richard

    Big Richard Peon

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    #100
    Its the usual ambiguous answers you usually get - I think they are just saying "you will probably get penilized for doing anything which we tell you not to in our webmaster guidelines" - how people interpret those guidlines differers dramatically.

    Personally I think the COOP fails the following two points, however there are also a lot of people that believe the COOP does not because it was designed as "an advertising system", not as a "system to manipulate PR/Ranking":

     
    Big Richard, Jun 29, 2006 IP