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Sitemaps - Size Important ?

Discussion in 'Google Sitemaps' started by john_loch, May 24, 2004.

  1. #1
    Hi all,

    I've a question about sitemaps. I'm considering using a sitemap, pretty much for chaneling PR, but the sitemap is bound to be huge.

    Anyone have observations on the limits of a sitemap - ie, an optimal number of links per page etc.
    SEMrush
    The site has a massive footprint, so I'm thinking map pages will prolly be in the vacinity of 5000 links apiece.

    Perhaps it's a good idea, perhaps it's not worth the trouble.

    Anyone ?
     
    john_loch, May 24, 2004 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Cricket

    Cricket Well-Known Member

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    #2
    Google is pretty specific concerning their guidelines about this.

    "Offer a site map to your users with links that point to the important parts of your site. If the site map is larger than 100 or so links, you may want to break the site map into separate pages."

    http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html
     
    Cricket, May 25, 2004 IP
  3. disgust

    disgust Guest

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    #3
    I don't know if I'd go by that 100-links thing, actually.

    but definitely don't go over 100/101kb.
     
    disgust, May 25, 2004 IP
  4. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #4
    The google sitemap has about 140 links on it. But & I have to say this is my opinion, I would never go over the 100 link thing. Google does not say much openly, so, what it does say, it must take seriously. I understand that Google is taking more than 100k now, can't remember the exact figure though, I know Y! takes 500k.

    If you have 5,000 then break it down to 50 x 100 with a link to all 50 one click from the index.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, May 25, 2004 IP
  5. SEbasic

    SEbasic Peon

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    #5
    That might be tricky...

    two clicks would be fine...
     
    SEbasic, May 25, 2004 IP
  6. SEO Guy

    SEO Guy Peon

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    #6
    I would actually make it 100 x 50 heh, no seriously though Bigwebmaster and I did some tests with the link limit thing and we discovered that you could have over 800 links per page on a sitemap, still have every link count as a backlink and pass PR.

    I subscribe to the no more then 100k thing, not the 100 links thing, so choose the most logical combination is it 500 x 10 100 x 50 10 x 500 it really doesnt matter, they are all spiderable and will pass the same, I just like to have the higher # in the front as it is recieving the highest PR blast so all links are much more likely to get spidered
     
    SEO Guy, May 25, 2004 IP
  7. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #7
    oops, that is my bad grammar,. I meant brak it down ito 50 X100 , one click away. Meaning that the links to ALL 50 pages would be one click away for the spiders. I wouldnt actually have 100 in a page though I dont think I have gone above 70, the main being for usability to allow me to add pages within the existing links.

    I have been suprised at how many people ar landing on the site maps as well, they are following bookmarked links as they are not getting there via search, rather through directly calling the url.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, May 25, 2004 IP
  8. webcertain

    webcertain Guest

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    #8
    Hi Oldwelshguy,
    how could you make so many sitemaps user friendly? Wouldn't it be easier if you have a first site map with the main links and sub-site maps?
    Cheers,
    webcertain
     
    webcertain, May 25, 2004 IP
  9. stripersonline

    stripersonline Well-Known Member

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    #9
    It's sort of ironic and a testament to Google - but when you truly concern yourself with making something "user friendly", the safest thing to do is think WWGD? (what would Google do)

    All of Google's rules and suggestions are designed to reward websites for being user friendly.

    With 5,000 pages to put on a site map, the most user friendly thing to do would be to use good, unique titles and descriptions - then categorize and then sub-categorize and then sub-categorize - until you had groups of about 70-80 pages in each smallest unit. Why? Because your categories and sub-categories would be the natural manner for a user to find what they are looking for. It's a monumental task. But it's also the method that your users - and Google - would most appreciate :)
     
    stripersonline, May 25, 2004 IP
  10. peteinoz2

    peteinoz2 Peon

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    #10
    when he referred to a sitemap page..

    I dont think it was meant for public viewing, mainly spider crawling etc.. as a safeguard to get all his pages indexed etc..

    interestingly,, I uploaded a site with 2450 pages, and as of today all pages were indexed without a sitemap.. which I was thinking of adding to the next site that goes up.. so maybe i dont need to ?
     
    peteinoz2, May 25, 2004 IP
  11. stripersonline

    stripersonline Well-Known Member

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    #11
    I'd respectfully disagree. The question asked was specifically how to make so many site maps "user friendly" - which leads me to believe they are intended to be designed for public veiwing.
     
    stripersonline, May 25, 2004 IP
  12. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #12
    digitalpoint, May 25, 2004 IP
  13. wiseone

    wiseone Peon

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    #13
    I have the same problem... I have about 7000 pages on the site and trying to figure out how to create a good sitemap which is both user friendly and crawler friendly.

    We are running into problems that our current sitemape is to deep... and the pages near the bottom (or multiple clicks from the homepage) are not getting crawled and added to the index very quickly.
     
    wiseone, May 25, 2004 IP
  14. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #14
    Well I would definitely say break it into pages that are less than 100k each.
     
    digitalpoint, May 25, 2004 IP
  15. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #15
    Thanks for that link Shawn, I wasn't sure if Google was, thats why I said i 'thought' they might be, but the proof of the pudding there is now that they are . I read it somewhere, and can't think where.

    Webcertain,
    What you ask for is exactly what I suggested, Although not vry well lol. For the thrird time I will explain what I said, obviously lost in the translation.

    If you have 5,000 then break it down to 50 x 100 with a link to all 50 one click from the index.

    So I was saying it was better to break the list into manageable amounts of say 50 pages, and have a page that displays all of these site map pages, one click away from the index page. SO on the index page you have a link saying site map, you then hit that button and you have a nice set of links all categorised and sorted into about 50 pages. Phew , hope i explained it a little better this time.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, May 25, 2004 IP
  16. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #16
    Well, what I'm saying is they *don't* spider more than 100k... It's always displayed as 101k, and if you look at the cache of it, it basically just truncates it.
     
    digitalpoint, May 25, 2004 IP
  17. compar

    compar Peon

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    #17
    I've always been fuzzy on this. Do graphic images count in the 101k total?

    The old rule of thumb was that one typed page was approximately 2k. So does that mean you can have a web page the rough equilvalent of 50 typed pages -- including the html of course -- before Google will give up?

    The reason I ask this is that a good site map should be all text links. It would seem to me that you could put a hell of a lot more than the 100 link limit on a 100k page. So isn't the real limit a matter of the acceptable number of links rather than the size of the page?
     
    compar, May 25, 2004 IP
  18. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #18
    Th 100k limit is just for the raw HTML page. Images, external JS files, etc. don't count toward it.
     
    digitalpoint, May 25, 2004 IP
  19. disgust

    disgust Guest

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    #19
    we have ~1,000 pages on the site.

    the sitemap was over 100K with just plain text links and a small graphic for each - a very, very light page.

    it's not hard to go over 100k.
     
    disgust, May 25, 2004 IP
  20. john_loch

    john_loch Rodent Slayer

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    #20
    Hi ppl,

    Nice variety of observations here. I think I'll stick to the 100K limit. Just to clarify my question a little, I should point out this is purely a PR chaneling exercise. That is to say, the sites pages have long been indexed by G|Y|Ink etc. More importantly, the navigation taxonomy is already very efficient in distributing PR where needed.

    It's just that a few small segments of the site need a little boost, hence the PR chaneling. Unfortunately, the issue with large websites is the sheer volume of internal links when attempting a map.

    I suppose I'm just going to have to refine my strategy :)

    **** OK here's another question - If I have to get fussy, and remembering this is mainly a PR chaneling exercise, would it be wiser just to feature brief anchor text in said links (reducing file size) or should I persist with full anchor text as well ? (I mean it'd be handy - and with a site of this size, significant, but obviously expand the map tree somewhat, and impact passed PR.)

    I suppose I'm verging on the PR vs Anchortext/KW advantages..

    I've seen some pretty massive maps in my time, many of which completely disregard KW density issues. It's obviously a difficult affair to avoid this with a map unless the site is small, so: has anyone seen density bias in this regard from Google ? ie more flexible with site maps ?

    Thanks to all who've contributed BTW :)
     
    john_loch, May 25, 2004 IP