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Site is not listing in Dmoz

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by makhussy, Dec 15, 2009.

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  1. gaven

    gaven Peon

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    #21
    yes,the main problem is comments from other doesn't make sense to you at all.

    and yes there are some mods from that forum who are member here,but they are not moderator here,so may be cannot delete your post.:DSEMrush
     
    gaven, Dec 21, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. vengs

    vengs Greenhorn

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    #22
    ok ,reading your thoughts,i am sure you are from dmoz,

    1)I mean if you were able to delete post here as well,you would have just deleted post or banned the user,rather than providing logic.

    2)Rules are clear and most people abide by it,but you dont have any other explanations other than "TOS voilation" and "May be it is not reviewed yet" ,if site is not listed.
    So,even if person reads that TOS 1000 times,if he is not able to get site listed at once,he wont be able to do it in his lifetime.:D

    (please read it slowly and you will get it,It is something you dont want to listen, and you read it hastily(skipping) then how will you get it?)

    3)So,i said it is unprofessional as it has not got any relaibilty,accountability and runs on personal whims of some editors.

    finally i said,people there never want to listen to opposing views."You are not listed" means that is the ultimate decision.(no discussion allowed).

    once again,these are not allegation but personal experience.
     
    vengs, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  3. jimnoble

    jimnoble Well-Known Member

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    #23
    You're beginning to get it and I'll take that as a compliment :)!

    We are indeed, just a bunch of hobbyist amateurs.
     
    jimnoble, Dec 21, 2009 IP
    Anonymously likes this.
  4. Anonymously

    Anonymously Notable Member

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    #24
    Sorry where else do you mean? If you are talking about RZ, I cannot dlete anything there, sorry.

    What on earth are you on about. The guideline I quoted is very clear. Sites have to fulfil our terms and conditions, but the guideline clearly says that the sites we list are at the discretion of the editor. How would you react if I told you that you HAD to collect certain stamps in your collection, if you had one. I produce stamps and YOU HAVE to BUY mine. I guess you would tell me where to go. Right well this is OUR links collection, we do it as a hobby, that does not mean we don't have expertise. Many stamp collectors know everything about stamps, but it is still only theiur hobby. We collect what we are happy to collect, w work in areas that we are happy to work in. No one forces us to do anything, we are not under some business constraint to make money. We are that sort of directory. Now if you don't like the fact that Google rank us so highly, above other directories, and want to use our free downloads, then take it up with them. It has nothing to do with us. But I really do suspect that because of why and how we list sites Google want to use us. Check out this thread http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=11768243&postcount=1. As I said if you want to pay to try to get listed then Best of the Web offer that service. We don't claim to list sites in good time, we have told you why, we have told you that we do not have any influence over Google, so what is your problem?

    Wrong it runs on the discretion of ANY editor. There is accountability in that we have several hundred editors who can edit anywhere and editors can always edit 'below' them in the tree, many times a site listed by one editor can be removed, changed, or deleted by another editor. So if one editor lists a site that another editor feels should not be as is, that second editor can and does change it. Frequent needs for alteration can lead to an editor having their account withdrawn.

    Opposing views are usually that we become a listing service, that charge for review, that we list x site. Most of those because site owners want their site listed. Sorry we have no interest in what site owners want, sorry we have no interest in if a site has all the latest gizmos, sorry we are not a listing service.
    We do not want to charge for review, most editors would walk if that happened, if the task of an editor becomes that they are told where to work and when, most of us would walk, if it stops being our hobby most of us would walk, if we stop enjoying what we do, most of us would walk. If the discretion goes and we list all sites, Google walks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
    Anonymously, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  5. udayns

    udayns Peon

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    #25
    It will take some time. Just submit every month and check it..
     
    udayns, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  6. Anonymously

    Anonymously Notable Member

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    #26
    That is the worst advice you can give. Our guidelines say submit ONCE. Re-submitting certainly will not do any good and it can be detrimental to a possible listing, too many submissions and you can be branded as a spammer and the site banned for good.
     
    Anonymously, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  7. vengs

    vengs Greenhorn

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    #27

    well,thanks ,was nice to read that.(I felt those words were not filled with anger and was prettry constructive reasoning)

    What i want?
    May be nothing for now.But if you can,rather than saying, "Go and read TOS" ,if the site gives specific reasons like "ok your site was too spammy","Volation of point # this",then it would be of much help to confused webmasters like me.

    Do you know why question like "why my site is not listed in dmoz?" is being posted in numbers all around the web?

    It is NOT bcoz we want to just argue or discuss,rather lots of people like us are confused with vagaue answer(Voilation of TOS).

    You said the TOS you showed me is clear.I agree. I read it and did every thing right according to it.
    But my site didnt got listed.
    Now i have no other option than agreeing and guessing that "may be there was something wrong",even though i did every thing right as per TOS.


    Everybody feels one has done every thing right from her prespective.(may be except spammers).


    About hobby things.
    My personal opinion.No site should have given any priority to site which runs just for hobby,no accountability,relaibility(I know about crash as well) BUT sad story is some site has.
    May be at that time,there were no better option available than it.

    I dont have any personal anger with dmoz,who publicly tends to say ,"it is our property,we are doing this just for amusement,we have right to do whatever we want".But at the sametime i feel "ethics" should have some value as well.

    Finally,i am not against tight screeing and know if you start approving everything google might not be happy.
    But
    what i mean is, the filter should not be complete Opaque where normal sites cannot pass and only editor can do and enter sites using hidden doors.

    At last,i dont care about dmoz listing and personally i suggest nobody should care lot about it.But there are still lot of people who has many misunderstandings about "being listed in dmoz".May be for that reason, one is enticed to get listed.May be to keep up with the misunderstanding of some ignorant visitors.

    Personal views only based on experience.We dont force other should agree with it.It may be right or wrong.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
    vengs, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  8. vengs

    vengs Greenhorn

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    #28
    if somebody has said us, "how unprofessional your site is?"

    we would have thought,it's time to rethink over our whole approach and we might have been doing something wrong.(even not being able to satisfy customers(viewers) can be considered as mis-management of site)

    Bad signal for our business.:D
     
    vengs, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  9. jimnoble

    jimnoble Well-Known Member

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    #29
    Exactly! You're a business and DMOZ is not :)
     
    jimnoble, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  10. Anonymously

    Anonymously Notable Member

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    #30
    Listen to everyting I have said
    We edit, within the confines set by senior editors, where we like, where we choose. Now if you can tell me how long I will spend with my family this Christmas, how long I will need to sort out the mess after the snow, how long to have to go and see the doctor, how long I will need to see the dentist, how long I will need to travel to see the rest of my family and not just over Christmas for the whole of 2010, if you can tell me that, I will tell you how long I can spend on DMOZ editing. If you can also tell me if I will need to edit in a relaxed area that I enjoy because I have other pressures in my life, or if I will want to tackle some of the difficlt areas, then I might be able to make some rough prediction about how many edits I can do. Multiply that across hundreds of editors and I can tell you there is no way we can predict, when or who will look at any particular submission in 2010.
    So a site might sit for a year, two years because no one VOLUNTEERS to work in that area AND work the suggestions queue. We try to encourage people to volunteer, both new editors and experienced editors to take on categories that need help, but they have to be volunteers who offer to do that, subject (even experienced editors) to them being acceptable to work in that area. We have existing editors who are turned down to work in areas because they do not have the experience.
    So given that we don't know when a site will be looked at and given that we do not undertake to look at them in good time, any site can sit from a few days to a few years in the suggestions pool. Listable sites are rarely not used but what site owners think are listable and what we think are listable is often vastly different. Understand too that we not undertake to guarantee any site a list. If I don't want to collect stamps from Columia, who will make me?

    So if you understand our motivation and how we operate then this is a dead comment

    Nothing to do with us, you should post this comment, along with all the others like it in the Google forum. We have absolutely NO control over who uses our free dumps provided they give us accredition. We could become the closed directory project and not give our data away free, but we are not any more than we run a business, but believe that it was not that there was no other, but that Google knows why we list sites and it obviously prefers that to all the duff directories there are around.

    Do you collect anything, stamps, coins, football programmes, garden shrubs because I think if you do y ou should let me be able to decide on which ones. It is unethical for you to be able to decide. Think of the poor coutries who produce stamps and you don't buy them. DMOZ has been running this model for many years, we have not just changed, it is about havin hundreds of editors many with great experience who give their free time, for nothing but insults many times. We do have many ethics, I can add or remove a site from anywhere in the directory, like 200+ other editors, if we find bad sites listed we remove them, if we find good sites in our travels we add them.

    Now there you go, you are back to wanting us to be a listing service, so that if you pass the test you will be listed in a reasonable period of time. We are not, we do not offer that service we do not undertake to look at suggested sites, good, bad or indifferent in reasonable time, nor do we undertake to list any site at all. remember that guideline I showed you. If you want directories to pay to see if you can get listed BOTW is excellent, if you have a problem with Google using us complain in the Google forum.
     
    Anonymously, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  11. vengs

    vengs Greenhorn

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    #31
    Well ,thanks.
    Thanks for your straight answers.
    I must say that some of my thoughts did changed by those words.
    I understand and respect those thoughts.

    But at the back of my head,though every thing seems ok with those answers,i feel something is wrong here ....:D

    ok ,i hope you are not tired of the discussion,offcourse i am not tired and absorbing the creative arguement.

    Any way ,here are my final responses,which emerged out bcoz of some confusion out of your last post.

    No enough editors:
    My personal views:-Suppose,a president of a country sees that his people are poor,the president feels like distrubuting cars.But ,it doesn't.
    why?
    Because he knows if he starts distributing cars he knows that ,he will not be able to give it to all his citizens.So,if he distributes car,and is not able to give it to all,he will be doing injustice to person who didn't get the car though he is eligible of getting it.

    Similarly,dmoz says it is a public website where anyone can submit sites and anybody's site will be approved if it ok.So having said that, it is their duty to do justice to all.
    Please dont take it otherwise,if they can't do so,then they can say "we wont be able to approve all,we dont have editors" and may be close it (like president decides not to distribute cars.)
    I cannot suggest them.They might have their own vision,mission BUT if i was asked i would say,they should get some way to generate income rather than crying "they dont have enough men".Even wikipedia is collecting donation now.It can be donation,funds for using info,extra charge for rapid review etc.
    I can think of 100 :) .........should not be necessarily always paid listing

    ok,i have been listening stamp collection example.
    My comments.

    You collect stamp at your home.You see it,nobody is effected.
    Now suppose,national postal service of the country is collecting stamp to show it to others,then it is their duty to get stamps of each region,tribe,caste,religion.You cannot collect stamp of one region and say "This is all our country has got".

    If dmoz was hosted in some intranet (personal stamp collection),then nobody would have right to question it or even bother about talking it.

    But being in public network and referring it as a unbaised,public network they have certain responsibities as well.
    A national tv cannot put advertisement of arms and ammunication and say it our tv, we can show any thing.

    any way,i respect your opinions and know you are right with your stand.

    But these are some of the queries my mind still has.So just listed.


    As always.Just personal views or confusions.
     
    vengs, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  12. vengs

    vengs Greenhorn

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    #32
    and may be sad part is that some responsible authories(who matters) has been disguised to think this "hobby group party or gathering" as a hive of information :D

    i know your answer,"nothing we can do".

    thats why i say "sad part" :D

    but may be sooner or later things will be fixed:)

    personal opinions and just words for words.
     
    vengs, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  13. freshersjobs

    freshersjobs Greenhorn

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    #33
    DMOZ listing can make a lot of difference to your website ranking...but you have to submit the site and just wait. No choice...just wait and watch.

    Try posting on other web directories.
     
    freshersjobs, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  14. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #34
    Actually there are, but we tend to bypass this section of the forum to avoid accusations of corruption and bias.
    Then again, maybe I'm not :)
    How time flies!
     
    sarahk, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  15. Anonymously

    Anonymously Notable Member

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    #35
    My bold, there you make a big mistake. Guidelines which I quoted before say
    . We do not say that all sites will be included, we do not guarantee any site a listing. So we are not like a President offering things to subjects.

    Many great art collections are displayed in public, but the pblic cannot say you have no Picasso this is not ethical, you must get some Picasso immediately. The person who is putting in the time and paying gets to choose what s/he does or does not collect.

    Because we are all volunteers, because we cannot predict how much time any volunteer can give, because we cannot predict where a volunteer will choose to work we cannot undertake to list all sites, we have 5 million, we would need to have 500 million to do that. So if we can't list them all, you don't want us to list any?

    We are simple hobbyists, we are entitled to collect sites as we like, where we like and when we like and we can use that data how we like. We choose to give it away freely to anyone who finds it useful, Google and others do so. Good. But we would continue working if Google or all the others decided that we were not useful. But they know we are!
     
    Anonymously, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  16. vengs

    vengs Greenhorn

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    #36
    Can you prove it...or show us any official statement saying this.
    I dont think so.

    At max,the logic could be most pages of dmoz have pr of 4-5+ so it may be having links from pr5 pages(any than specific dmoz factor which increases the pr)

    plus are they really dofollow links...i dont think so.
     
    vengs, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  17. vengs

    vengs Greenhorn

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    #37
    ok,i think then ball is in google's court and i totally agree your saying that there is nothing you can do in that part.

    May be if you are unrelaible ,but somebody is disguised and thinks that you are relaible then there is nothing that unrelaible guy can do.He cannot say "ok dont trust me".
    Same case,but truth doesn't lie in bottom for ever,with increasing population of people like us may be some day google would say,"ok we wont take this baised data collection from some time pass hobbiest any more".or we willnot provide any priority any more.....
    hope to hear that ...in future...

    Any way,i know google rankings are not totally guided dmoz,we have sites which has not dmoz listing and have PR 6-7 and ranked #1 for many keywords...so not worried at all..

    any way thanks for comments.
     
    vengs, Dec 21, 2009 IP
  18. ThePassiveIncomeBlog

    ThePassiveIncomeBlog Active Member

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    #38
    you're not going to get listed.

    view it that way, and when you do - if you do you'll be happy... otherwise, just expect that it'll never happen.
     
    ThePassiveIncomeBlog, Dec 22, 2009 IP
  19. Anonymously

    Anonymously Notable Member

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    #39
    Now there lies the knub of our argument, you believe because your site is not listed that we have biased data! How did I guess.

    The model has never changed, and if Google wants a paid directory, there are plenty, but Google will have to pay, if it wants its own then it has a long way to go to catch up what we have. But Google seems to have some sense and actually like the model that does not have payment for review, humnan edited and the humans doing the editing with no concern for the site owners, PR, flash new sites just content. Probably the only way to get that is the model we use.
     
    Anonymously, Dec 22, 2009 IP
  20. cjw

    cjw Peon

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    #40
    I have submitted my site over the past 3 years about 5 -7 times and still no listing.

    It is an obviously biased situation with editors that are probably your competitors. Everything on the internet is profit driven and
    DMOZ is no different. It is made by the most highly profit driven search engine on the internet. However, they pretend that search listings are for informational purposes. Look on the side of all search engines search results and all you see are paid advertisements and CPC. You cannot go to any free site without seeing ads placed by retailers etc who in turn make these search engines a lot of money. Now, why would anyone want to be listed on DMOZ.....a very blah site? Well, because it gives your website a nice backlink which in turns helps your rankings, which in turn helps a website owner make a living.

    Now simple point, who do you think becomes editors? Your competitors!!!!!!!

    After still waiting for 3 years to get listed, I applied to become an editor, wow, I got a reply in less than 3 hours with a turn down. I did it purposely knowing that I would get turned down since I have an retail website and told the truth. I am actually surprised it took 3 hours since it fell into the hand of a competitor. My advise forget it,...move on to other things, you don't need them.

    If anyone can think up a way for a class action suit for unfair competition let me know.......We all know its happening.
     
    cjw, Dec 27, 2009 IP
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