Should US Foreces Leave Afghanistan ????

ATM we have a USA President who does not want to win and it is the same attitude we had in Vietnam. In fact he had the same attitude about the unwinnable war in Iraq. The Democrats in congress had the same conclusion as he did. So basically if we as a nation at the top don't believe we can win then we should pull out. But, the problem with that is the resurgence of terrorism and it is a cancer that will pervade the entire world. My brother served in 3 wars, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan and he is going back for another tour before mustering out.

I would like to see us get out if we have the same leadership. Then again Afghanistan is a tough country with rugged terrain and people.

 

The big difference between Afghanistan and Vietnam is 9/11. The second issue with Vietnam was that the US was trying to avoid another Korean War and direct fighting with China. After Vietnam, China admitted that they had lost 16k men in combat.

In order to win in Afghanistan the US needs to get rid of the Iranian Puppet Hamid Karzai. Then train Afghanistani special foreces that are able to go into the tribal areas and take out the Taliban and Bin Laden.

Al Qaeda is directly connected to the Nazis through its affliation with the Muslim Brotherhood and Ayman al-Zawahiri.

 

Our troops had won Vietnam but the politicians lost it. That is the analogy to Vietnam, the politicians are losing Afghanistan for us. The President is responsible for prosecuting wars and he doesn't want to win, President Bush was in it to win it, in for the long haul. The Afghans will not help us unless they know we are in it to win, the turning point in Iraq was when the populace knew we would not turn tail and leave them to Al Qada. The Afghans know if we leave any Al Qada then any USA sympathizers will be killed. That is the biggest problem with those stupid documents that idiot Australian released in that it showed who helped us and now they are targets.

So we can get rid of all the puppets and train all the forces but without resolve to win we are lost.
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Winning isn't possible in clearly defined terms. President Bush was doing a good job in Afghanistan. The troop level was around 30k and we were fighting at a sustainable level. It's too costly to send a modern Army to fight taliban cannon fodder. It probably costs $500 or so to train and equip a taliban as opposed to 500k for US troops.

The US still has troops in Japan, Korea and Germany 65 years after World War 2. It's going to take 50 years in Afghanistan or at least the willingness to stay that long that will lead to a victory.

 

The problems we're facing are the terrorists trained and equipped by Iran & Pakistan . Right now our strategy is more of search and destroy when it should be more of a hold the line . I don't think we can stabilize Afghanistan quickly . Our best bet is to reinforce the zone until the local forces are strong enough to deliver the ass-kicking on their own . Just like we did back in Iraq .

If the CIA would grow some ball and fund the Iran resistance like mad we might secure Afghanistan even faster .

 

Do you see the war has just created a bigger enemy to fight as the way it's being fought leaves a lot of enemies in its wake? The "in it to win" & "steely resolve" attitude means taking them all out, even the newly created enemies now you've killed their brothers. If you're in there to win, wouldn't it be more humane just to nuke the joint now and get it over with rather than prolong the suffering for so long till they're all dead anyhow?
Given the new 'pre-emptive stance' taken, I can only see an end once they're all wiped out. It's just going to get bigger and bigger until one or the other is wiped out.

 

I tend to agree with this, though we would never hear the end of replacing a democratically elected president with our own pick. I suppose you'll have genius' like Betaturn calling anyone who isn't Al Queda supporting a "puppet" of the US, so perhaps it doesn't make a difference. Still, replacing Karzai would need the support of the people, or it will be counter productive.

Victory through surrender is it then? LoL.

Now that is the first sensible thing you've said. Wars that don't have a violent and bloody end, usually don't end at all. Victory is only achieved once the enemy is crushed and completely demoralized. Unfortunately, nobody from our side has the will to do what is necessary anymore, though I can guarantee you that, were the financial roles reversed, our opponent most definitely would use all means at their disposal.

Personally, if the President isn't commtted to victory, I don't understand the waste of blood and treasure. I'd pull out, give the Taliban a few months to gather and organize and then fly bombing sorties in for a couple days. Rinse and repeat. Bang for the buck, you can't get much cheaper, and they'd be scratching their heads as to what to do when there wasn't a single foreign troop left on Afghani soil.

 

I don't believe anyone wins a war. Everyone loses, but some people don't lose everything.
62,476,670 to 78,878,170 deaths

 

The winners of wars are those that write the history books .

 

If we live Afghanistan it will fall once more into the grip of extremist Islam thanks to it two neighbors : Iran & Pakistan . So the Alliance forces there are the only guarantee that the terrorists don't rise to power once more .

As for defeat the fact that there weren't anymore 9/11s it's a victory itself .

 

Let them stay there any pile up U.S debt. Who's laughing in the end? China & Russia.

 

Karzai's comments have a practical application NATO might be advised to listen too.

Karzai's point of view is from someone who has been against the Taliban his entire carer and knows what is necessary in keeping the populous on the right side to win the war. It really is not for the US military but the Afghan people to defeat the Taliban for a lasting victory to take hold.

 

i saw a frontline documentary on the war in afghanistan and it seems like the taliban are just waiting it out.

the U.S. backed government seems to be a little corrupt from the shady elections that karzi won and it seems that

the people of afghanistan have a moral tendency for the taliban

 

Australian Greens Leader Bob Brown's Afghanistan debate speech to the Parliament last week.
[video=youtube;UpcmdG4YrJI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpcmdG4YrJI&feature=player_embedded[/video]

Bob Brown is Australia's longest serving member of Parliament.

 

Even the Afghan people don't want the U.S to withdraw, see for yourself...

[video=youtube;sfm5_5DjPss]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfm5_5DjPss[/video]

 

I concur. President Bush was willing to fight less efficient wars because he felt it was morally correct. President Obama is just letting things ride because he is completely lacking in strategic insight. Eventually, the U.S. will elect a President with strategic insight and the fiscal focus to fight an efficient war.

At that point, talk of liberation, occupation, and rebuilding will stop. War will once again be about using the tools of destruction to destroy the enemy's will to fight.

 

George Soros, the money-man backer of Barry Obama, wons stock in the companies making the airport scanners.

So instead of devoting money to fight and destroy the terrorists over there, we are spending the resources touching people's junk on domestic air flights. It doesn't make sense. There's nothing to stop a terrorist from getting on a bus, subway, train or any place that people gather like Times Square.

All the billions that Obama is spending to touch people's junk, didn't stop the Times Square bomber training with the Taliban in the tribal areas and driving a car bomb into Times Square.

Afghanistan needs term limits. It's time for Karzai to move on.

 

Obama did send an additional 30,000 US troops to Afghanistan. Though the date he announced when US forces are going to pull out did no favours in saying that he'd stay for the long term.

But the war like others have said is not winnable unless the Afghani people fight themselves. It is the people that will decide their fate and their future of how their country is to be run. Though if we can hand over and train the Afghan military to secure their own country, then it is ultimately the Afghan people that will win in the end.

It is my belief that the US should not pull out until control can be handed over to the Afghan military. Only until then, should they pull out, but they should leave a contingent force if needed and requested, support can be obtained that way as opposed to foreign troops going out on patrols everyday and risking their lives for another foreign country.

 

But what to do if the corrupt Karzai government is never ready? What to do if the reality of the situation on the ground is that the majority of people in Afghanistan want to create a haven for Islamist terrorism?