Should Dutch film "FITNA' be banned?

You engaged me in that thread, arguing for several posts. You had no problem with PARTICIPATING in it going offtopic. In fact, you seemed to be having a good time trying to make me look bad by doing so.

But when I thoroughly owned you for ignorance or lies (whichever it was), you closed the thread.

So we've now exposed even more hypocrisy. You clearly had no problem with the OT discussion, until it exposed you. Then you had to exercise censorship to silence me.

And in the process, you killed an excellent discussion between iul and I.

But then, you really don't care about the quality of discussion, just protecting your own fragile ego. Right?

 

To everyone else reading the thread it was apparent that your entire argument was going to be based on your unwillingness to answer questions and engage in dialogue. It was fairly obvious after two posts that you should have stopped talking and gone off to re-evaluate your premise. But since you were unwilling to answer simple questions it made dialogue impossible and as such made it impossible to get the thread back on topic. At which point i decided that your grandstanding shouldn't be allowed to continue in my thread and i was no longer willing to humour you and your facile premise so i asked for my thread to be closed.

But feel free to start a thread of your own. Like i say, You are entitled to your opinions and you are entitled to voice them, You just aren't entitled to do it where ever you please.

 

I'll agree that you may have had some property rights as the thread starter, even though you have argued pretty strongly for communal property which might mean that the people who post to the thread have a stake in it's value and existence as well.

But the bottom line is, you posted something hypocritical here and I called you on it. You have no problem with censorship. As long as you are the one doing the censoring (see your, this was my thread defense above).

This isn't news to me that you are all for abusing other people's opinions. But I thought it might be relevant to other people on the forum, who might not realize that if you start a thread and they post something you don't like, you might try to have the discussion killed.

PS, "to everyone reading the thread". You can't speak for everyone. While you think you have the power to censor people on this forum, mind reading may still be beyond your capabilities.

 

sorry, i meant "to everyone who could read". Reading is really the only thing required to see how evasive you were when it came to answering simple questions.

So tell me, If someone comes in to your house and starts protesting, Would it be censorship if you have them removed? is it censorship when a newspaper denies my request to have articles published in their paper? Is it censorship when a publisher refuses to publish my book? Like i have said repeatedly, You have the right to have and voice your opinions, You just don't have the right to voice them where ever you like and you don't have the right to expect others to facilitate you.

 

Yes, it is censorship. And it is appropriate because they have private property rights.

I'm not alleging that you weren't entitled to some sort of ownership of that thread, only that you are being a hypocrite when you protest censorship, but exercise it yourself.

Just as you exercised censorship over a discussion which badly embarrassed you. You could do it under some "private property" type rights.

I probably wouldn't have even brought it up, if you weren't trying to take the moral high road here, and protest censorship, when we both know full well, that you have no problem using censorship for your own self-interest.

 

It would only have been hypocritical if i was saying people should be made to watch the film and that the film should be shown in inappropriate places. In their homes and via their choices people can chose to watch and say whatever they want. The difference is I'm not trying to stop you saying anything, I was only trying to stop you saying it at the expense of my thread. Just like you wouldn't want someone protesting in your home, But have no problem with them doing it in the street. is the difference really escaping you?

 

As a Muslim, I do not really care whether it will be banned or not, even if it was banned, anybody who wants to see it will find a way to see it, I believe there should be a third neutral choice in this poll.

Insults for Islam, the prophet pbuh, and Muslims are all over the internet since long, and in American movies since long, did they stop Americans who want to become Muslims from becoming Muslims? I believe not, they did their own research and they decided what they believed is best for them,

I have full confidence in my religion Islam and I know very well, that such a movie won't stop people who really wants to know the truth from seeking it, or make the ones who already found it from going for else than the truth,

since the producer of this movie will express his points of view that I am sure many will share his opinion, and post in forums and blogs, news sites and media..etc, this will create big demand for answers or replies from Muslims, many will hope that Muslims would reply in a violent way to prove their points of view, BUT

on the contrary I see the chance here to clear some of the misunderstanding, since many also will raise honest questions for the sake of knowing the truth, and whom is better to ask about Islam else than a Muslim? I believe those deserve a good answer from Muslims by telling them what they needed to know.

PS: excuse my English I m not a native English speaker.

 

LOL sounds to me like you have bought the "They hate us for our freedoms" BS spread by terrorists like Bush and Cheney.

 

Excellently said imad.wisdom and clarity illuminate your post.

We need more people like you.

 

I agree, excellent point.

 

That wasn't the case.

This is dishonest. You participated in a prolonged offtopic discussion in the thread. You only closed the thread when you lost the argument. It had nothing to do with your saving the thread, you helped change the discussion. It had everything to do with silencing me.

You can pretend it was something other than reality, but the thread is there, and if necessary, I can count and post links to all of your responses to me. That should be evidence alone that you had no problem with the discussion until it exposed the mistruths you were propagating.

 

Not at all. Poor conclusion BTW. And I hate Bush and Cheney at least as much as you do.
My point was that the Muslims in Europe are slowly taking over control.

 

How would they be portrayed as violent if they just ignored the release of the movie and didn't protest it.

 

I think if the purpose of this film was to educate people fairly then it should not be banned, but it's sole purpose is to anger and discriminte Muslims and the Prophet, nothing more, nothing less so in my opinion it is a typical hate film that should be banned.

 

This film WILL prove how worked up some Muslims get when their opinions are opposed. This will not be banned; he will find somewhere to broadcast this if not nationally, a European will not allow himself to be stamped.

If the author “failed” to understand the Quran, intimidate him instead of making a fool and reverting your “proclaimed” preaches that you are for peach and agreeing.

I agree the author’s intentions are humanly disgusting (to depict a group of people violent, why, to cause more religious misfit?), but if the Muslims react violently, they look like a pack of fools (Western).

I don’t think the Western world should furthermore deter with the Middle-East, its like purposely being irrigative, but Christianity and such has connections with the Muslim world, so it comes here to the West.

I’ll vote NO, because no matter the subject, one should always be allowed to voice their opinions, even the worst tyrant.

 

If the author has an agenda of spreading hate and fear and lies, and hide behind "Freedom to Insult anyone because i can" value, tht I don't believe any European would tolerate, then that hate movie should be banned.

Do you remember how Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ" was labeled as a hate movie and anti-semitic, even when it was not. But the author of this movie is clearly anti-Muslim, and has made his views known against Islam many times. Under these circumstances, and knowing fully well that there would be a reaction from the Islamic world, which would disturb peace and good relations, can you allow such a movie to be shown?

If you want to make friends, you do not insult them in the name of Freedom of Speech.

 

On a personal stake, I believe he’s doing this for the sole purpose of being provocative, why not just get a life and refrain from religious warfare? His ass will have to be hiding forever in his peep holes, he wants to make a fool out of someone so bad, wait till karma takes it play. The minute this is released he’ll be under threat, I hope he knows what’s going to come with releasing this movie.

*Personal*

I do agree he’s abusing the primary rational drive of freedom of speech. If he’s looking for trouble, my friend, torment will be bestowed upon him, trust me. There is nothing to worry about, Karma is alive and well. It seems this’ll be very controversial for this year. To remain firm to this purpose, this cannot and will not be banned, didn’t cat ch the drift that government loves turmoil? When fighting a real asshole. The ONLY thing you can really count on is karma; the Government wants us to act out wildly.