Wow, that was really mature of Gtech! Way to debate! Only... I'm not forcing anyone to have an abortion! I'm not performing any abortions on anyone... so how exactly do I "want" to "murder" anything? I don't want anyone to have to go through unplanned pregnancy in the first place, but since it happens, alot, we don't live in Gtech's little fantasy world where no one makes mistakes , and is happy to take care of them when they do!
So you no longer want to murder little babies? Which is it? Murder them, or not? You advocate murdering babies to protect welfare benefits, to save money out of your pocket, but advocate spending money to keep murders, pedophiles and rapists alive. How logical is that? If you are in the murdering mood, you might test your illogical conclusions by promoting the execution of murderers, rapists and pedophiles. Talk about saving money! All those empty prison cells and all that money saved. You are so concerned about your welfare benefits being eaten up by unwanted children, how about unwanted thugs? Nah, that wouldn't be right, would it yo-yo? Let's spare the man who brutally murders a mother and her 2 month old child, let's spare the pedophile who rapes and murders a little girl and buries her alive, let's spare the man who rapes a 14 year old girl and leaves her for dead. But by all means, let's start up the furnaces and gas chambers in hitleresque fasion and murder innocent little babies. What's a baby guilty of? Having an irresponsible parent like you? I feel sorry for the baby, but that's no reason to murder it.
Lets try and avoid the personal assaults in what is universally accepted to be an emotive issue. I only read the last few pages and can agree with both of you. So from where I sit on the fence... As a race we need to step back and stop seeing sex as a right and recognise that pregnancy is the intended outcome of sex and you have to make a concerted effort to stop that happening. And yes, if you can drive a car you can manage contraception. So, if you're 16 consider the risk - to your future. I reckon once you get to about 20 there are no excuses...
I'm advocating choice for people. You're advocating another expensive law for taxpayers that ends with a lot of unhappy people. And risk innocent people being murderred by a faulty legal system? Nope. BTW gtech... a $20 million dollar death penalty case costs far more than housing and feeding them for life.
Actually, you are and have been advocating murder of babies. And listing all sorts of reasons why you find it justified. Saving money out of your pocket, protecting welfare benefits. Those are not choices, those are reasons to justify murder. What's a baby guilty of? Murder an innocent baby, spare the guilty criminal. 1.4 million babies. Surely hitler is rolling in his grave
Sarah I've never minded being poked fun at or the occasional small insult, I'm guilty of plenty myself - but I'm growing tired of gtech calling me a "murderrer" and comparing me to Hitler because I'm pro-choice.
Sorry, I have to take your posts off ignore to read them so I miss most of them. Interesting you bring up the age thing, since I am assuming you also believe that child should be able to have an abortion without the parents knowledge - seems to be a common trend. Sorry I thought you were mature enough to handle a little jab, I wouldn't call a personal insult unless you see yourself as immature. You are arguing that it would destroy their future, their finances, or that the mother would be incapable of handling a baby. So, I gave one example of how all those excuses were turned around. Many of young girls (with some supportive friends or family) can handle raising a child, it may not be the optimal way, but since marriage isn't looked at as anything now days, then I would say a single mother with help it pretty darn good.
Hitler killed off anyone with a handicap, Jewish, Christian, burned books etc. Liberals of today's America seem to follow the same path with a different angle they only want to burn the Bible, not all books. Abortion is given as an option for anyone with a baby that shows signs of a handicap, just looks better than shooting them when they are older. Hitler just didn't have the means back then. Hitler wasn't the first either. Back a few thousand years ago they burned their babies on idols as a sacrifice to have a good crop (finances)
I think everyone needs to step aside and take a breather momentarily. There really isn't a need for insulting comments or immature jibes at another's expense. This is a debate about the legality of abortion, not about anything else. If we're all "adults" here, it's high time people start acting that way.
There's something they say about people who "assume" For many it would, for some it won't, which is exactly why there should be choices for each individual's situation. You're right, WITH supportive friends and family, it can be done. Do you think everyone is lucky enough to have supportive family and friends, little lone supportive family and friends that can help? Unfortunately for many, they don't have that. Many girls would find themselves with unsupportive parents who want nothing to do with it.
Debunked, abortion is only advocated in cases where the baby has SEVERE mental or physical handicaps that either: A) Would kill the baby upon birth or B) Impair the child's life in some drastic way I should mention, these cases are extremely rare. They're about as common, or less than, abortions performed in the case of rape or medical distress to the mother. So it's not a case of, "Oh, my baby has a birth defect. I think I'll have an abortion."
You know the moment you step up for the argument with a pro-choice stance that you're going to be called a murderer, nazi and all that stuff. The language of the prolifer is as predictable as any other protest group. You both need to realise that changing the political stance of another person on a forum like this isn't going to work. The things that have changed my philosophies on life have been much more major. For instance I was strongly pro-choice until I had my own children. But I know mine lead a priviliged life compared to others. Try to change the world, bit by bit, but don't get frustrated when others fail to change as quickly as you might like.
SarahK, I completely agree with you. I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one am not attempting to change anyone's mind. I am simply debating a topic that has many different viewpoints, and I am attempting to do so in a mature fashion.
Already covered, many pages back: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=1099476&postcount=377
Why are most pro-life-ers so dramatic? If I hear Gtech scream "BABY MURDERER!!!" one more time, I think I might freak out. Abortion is not murdering a baby, so drop the drama. When a sperm and egg meet they create a cell that is rapidly dividing/multiplying (not an insta-baby). Cancer is also a rapidly dividing and multiplying cell(s), so why is it okay to seek medical treatment to end cancer and not to end a pregnancy? Let the women make the choice, she's the one who has to live with it. Simple as that.
Abortion is murdering a baby. http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=1085699&postcount=242 Week 1-4 - heart forms Week 5 - heartbeat Cancer does not have a heartbeat, Neural tube forms, life support system, Umbilical cord, lungs and internal body organs.
Let's say I would have less problem with it. And here's why (and thank you for the opportunity to expand): Have you ever watched the TV series ER? Or any other related medical show? Bare with me... So the patient is in the emergency room. Bad accident, doctors all around, machines and gizmos (for lack of a better term) abound. The camera zooms over to the heart rate monitor. It's eratic, the nurse shouts out "we're losing pressure" and after 15 seconds or so, the unmistakable sound of the heart rate monitor going flatline fills the room. The camera zooms in to confirm the heart rate monitor is flatlined. The doctors lower their heads, take the gloves off and the chief doctor declares "time of death: 11:23pm" I paint the scenario, because when the heartbeat ultimately stops, death is declared. The opposite of death is life. If life ends when a heartbeat ceases to exist, then life starts when a heartbeat begins. I think that's a fair statement. So yes, I would have less problem if abortion took place before five weeks. But it's very rare to detect at such an early stage. Life begins with a heartbeat, life ends when a heartbeat ceases to exist. One standard, across the board. Likewise, I have less of a problem when the procedure is called for, if the woman was raped or because of incest. That doesn't mean I necessarily support it, but in cases like these, it was not the fault of the woman/child. Her body was violated, against her will. She did not become pregnant for a lack of responsibility or carelessness. She became pregnant because she was violated. I'm not for abortion, but in cases like these, I can certainly understand the rational behind it. I hope that helps clear my position.