http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm A man shot dead by police hunting the bombers behind Thursday's London attacks was a Brazilian electrician unconnected to the incidents. How awful....
That is a tragedy, and what a screw up from the police. That is definately something that needs to be investigated in full and future fatal mistakes such as those have to be prevented. I do however deeply dislike the comment that Dr Azzam Tamimi from the Muslim Association of Britain told BBC News: "It is human lives that are being targeted whether by terrorists or whether in this case unfortunately, by people who are supposed to be chasing or catching the terrorists." I don't believe that for one second. Human lives are not being targeted. We all make mistakes trying to get accomplished what we need to and in this case that "mistake" was horrendous. The best thing we can do to honor the dead IMO is to learn from the procedings that caused this to happen and pray for his family to get thru this without becoming hateful and letting this destroy them.
I've been hearing about 'racial profiling' in the UK lately so much non-dark skinned people are avoiding hanging out with dark-skinned people. Now hearing that, and having 20 men in plain clothing chasing me, I would run too. Simply a tragedy, hope it wasn't all in vain.
He shouldn't have run from the police and jumped over a barrier then should he? At the end of the day, we were not in the situation, I HATE it when people jump in on the police about how they target people simply based on race. It's a common fact that the people who blew up our tube system and continue to blow themselves up are muslims, when someone refuses to stop, runs away and onto a train with a large overcoat on......what do you think they should have done? He could have been a bomber, we don't know.....what would have happened if it turned out he was? Potentially hundreds of lives saved, mistakes happen. Maybe next time the police tell someone to stop and give chase they will damn sure listen. Only has himself to blame.
I don't think I would run from authorities even though I have done so in the past (traffic stuff). If you are innocent, you should remain calm and let due process run its cause. Profiling does happen anywhere. Where I live, 95% are white and the average age is 24. When you drive here around 2 a.m. (right after the bars close), you get profiled easily. Drunk driving is out of control over here. I have been stopped as well and there was no reason to stop me at all. I was upset, but in retrospect I believe that the job of police is very hard and some leadway needs to be given. The problem is when you give too much power to the cops and the bad ones start harrassing folks to stroke their own egos. Proper support and accountability is necessary in every suciety. I think that the profiling tactics where I live have been saving lives. I also think that cops can be overwhelmed not knowing who is a terrorist and likely to be one. The best thing to do is to let them do their thing, get the batch number, and if they turn their duties into abuse ... report them ASAP to prevent future abuses from happening to others. Just a thought. Mike <edit>Something else: It can be racism but does not have to be. If you are looking for certain individuals, you can be easily mistaken for them if you look similar. Same like if a bankrobber wore a yellow sweater and you happen to wear one the day of a bankrobbery and happen to be somewhere in the same area. You might get stopped, but that is not something that should be taken as anything other than procedure. The sooner you as an innocent suspect get cleared, the sooner the law can procede and go after those who really committed the crime.</edit>
Good point, but my point is, how did he know? With the problems that stem from media fuel racial biased, how could he discern the mob was ununiformed police doing their duty, or vilgilantes, or cops planning on gunning him down? Giving up hindsight, I would know I have two choices: 1. stand and take a chance I was going to be killed by vigilantes. or 2. Run to survive. if vigilantes, I live. If cops, I get arrested later telling them I was scared. #2 has more promise of living. I'm sure that's all he wanted to do. RIP
now the attack in egypt. 88 killed. this world is a total mess... question to the people trying to say "why did the brasilian ran from the authorities". Why did they shot him 5 times? Is maybe one shot in leg enough?
Good point! If they DID as they claim to..think that he was somewhat involved in Thursday's attack, then wouldn't the guy have been of much more use to them alive, than dead. Tbh there was no need to shoot him FIVE times in the head. That's not like the police, it sounds more like a flippin SAS attack. I bet the policeman that shot him, must feel like shit. Although I don't blame the police...they obviously thought they were doing best and had the frame of mind that if he was indeed connected then by shooting him, it's preventing maybe another 20 people from dying. I don't know why he ran..and I guess now, we'll never know (although I do think there's a whole lot more to the story that we aren't hearing right now..) But his English might not have been too great - and having a load of PLAIN CLOTHED officer's chasing you with guns, shouting at you is quite a scary thing to happen. You don't know for sure what you'd do in a situation like that, unless it actually happens to you. I have read other comments about this on other forums and people are saying things along the lines of ''Glad they shot him, the idiot shouldn't have run'' ...what a disrespectful thing to say. I'm sure if it was one of their family or someone they know they wouldn't be so quick to judge. RIP.
No! The whole point of their shoot to kill instructions is to KILL. Shoot him in the leg, he pulls the bomb's trigger and say goodbye to your tube station. That's the problem. They either had to kill him or be convinced he was innocent. They poor guy gave them no choice by running. They couldn't do anything else but kill in this instance. BTW as per the other thread, I (almost) knew it wasn't a bomber. UK coppers have a reputation with these things. And by the way, loads of dark skinned people where winter coats in summer here. I never understood why but they sure as hell aren't all bombers. So police failed again. Chased the wrong guy, guy is dead in the most appaling way one can die. Stay clear from the tube if you aren't white, carry bags, wear rucksacks or use mobile phones. You are in danger of being shot in the head 5 times.
He ran from three men brandishing a gun. None were in uniform and according to eye witnesses, no warning was given. Also according to eye witnesses interviewed immediately after the incident by the media, he was prostrate and had two policemen kneeling on him when the third emptied 5 rounds into his head.
Some idiot witnesses said he had wires sticking out of his coat. Well excuse me for not being a bomb expert but SURELY, you would not have wires sticking out of your coat if you don't want to get caught prior to fulfilling your mission. That was such a load of crap. Aparently they were surveiling this guy's house, followed him when he left and the rest is history. Whoever was in charge of that needs to be sacked without honour. This is TOTAL BOLLOCKS: Nice way of allowing your troops to kill whoever they want and then blame the terrorists.
Sorry to re-drudge up this thread, but further information came out about the victim and his murders. Key points about his attire and behavior(ie running) were fibbed/mistakenly reported by the police. http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08/17/police.shooting/index.html tom
I saw that this morning...He was walking a normal pace. He even stopped to get the newspaper. (All on cctv) The only time he moved quickly was when the train was about to leave the station...we have all ran after a bus or train more than a few times. No bulky jacket or bag either
This was an almighty cock up by the police, and worse still the amount of misinformation released at the time is not acceptable. That said, I am sorry that this innocent man died, but his death is on the hands of the fanatics who brought suicide murdering into the UK. Until the point they did this there was no shoot to kill policy on suspected bombers. (although there was talk of it being in place during the Irish troubles) As for these calls of racism, what a bloody joke. FACT these bombs were carried out in the name of Islam, FACT the majority of Muslims are Non white. It is NOT racism, it is balance of probabilities I am afraid. Just the same as when a white guy is involved in a crime the police are said to be looking for an IC1 male, NOT ANY IC1 male, but this specific white male. So now does it make sense to stop blacks & Asians, Chinese, Japanese etc when they are not looking for any of those groups? I feel for this guy, I really do (even though he was in the country ilegally his visa having apparently run out 2 years earlier) that was no reason for him to die. This could have been innocent enough, he carries on unaware of being followed as the man could have been listening to an Ipod. He is dived on, he slips his hand inside his jacket to turn off the music, and is shot dead! Very sad death, but maybe now it will make these suicide murderers think again about their actions and the cause and effect for their community in general. One guy was on the BBC news at lunchtime saying how it is not acceptable for people to be shot dead in a civilised, democratic caring society. Suddenly we live in a democracy? Why then are those with a gripe not doing things democratically? I am sorry, but if you want to live in a civilised society you have to behave in a civilised way. I grew up in a rough area, at the age of 9 I carried a 9" blade knife (it was actually a cut down WWII bayonet). I knew the moment I pulled that knife if I was theatened, I had upped the anti, and it might well end up in someone getting hurt. Maybe this is why I have my take on things, I really don't know. What I do know though is that in a democracy there is no need to behave in the way of the bombing murderers. It is possible to bring the country to its knees via civil disobedience. If all the muslims working on our transport system got together and took a day off work, it would cause far greater problems than a few bombs in London. And I for one would back them in their actions against a badly handled Iraq Affair. Well I have been too political now so I better shut my mouth before I get a load of red rep lol.
Understood, it's publicly know about chances of getting harmed in the UK, but killed by the police? Here in the US if an office pumped up on adrenaline from a long chase even roughly handles a guilty man, he's looking at losing his job and going to jail. What has happened to these London Officers? Tom P.S. Don't worry about red reps, just hope when you get'em they have the guts to say who they are from.
No red rep here but I disagree. Watching the tape their is absolutely nothing suspicious. Nothing that could even remotely resemble a bulge, etc Why not arrest him when he was buying a paper? Surely, they could have detained him knowing it wasn't physically possible he had a bomb and he wasn't in a crowded area. After the initial reports, although it was tragic, I tended to side with the "honest" mistake report because he was jumping barricades in a winter jacket but I don't see how this shooting will send a message.
See I can understand your position yfs1. However (notice I didn't say 'but'), confession time, I use to jump turnstiles and run in the NYC subway. Even before I was big enough to actually jump'em, I ran under the arm. Even if the police story doctoring was correct, I don't feel doing such acts a person should pay with their lives. Just wrong, wonder if people are going to face justice for this. tom
Sounds like I am defending the police, but really I am not. I am just saying they made a dreadful mistake, one which cost this guy his life unfortunately. Now if they were told they must shoot to kill. A lot of people do not know what a shoot to kill policy actually is. They think that it is a case of, if you have to shoot, then you shoot to kill, It certainly isn't that. A shoot to kill policy means that they do NOT want the suspect arrested, they want him shot dead, regardless of actions. STK is in effect the death penalty without trial by jury. It is an execution order, and I am totally against it. What do you do though when faced with an enemy who cares not a jot for the lives of others or himself? Is it right to risk the lives of the people around him? ALL of this stems from the fact that we are now facing suicide murderers, something we have not had to face before.