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Send Me Samples?! Samples Mean Nothing

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by coreygeer, Jun 8, 2013.

  1. coreygeer

    coreygeer Notable Member

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    #21
    If you're going to quote and zero in on my own pricing, then please read the whole thing before you point out my signature.

    Yes, the rate is horrendously low but I don't target Digital Point anymore for high paying clients anyways. I've picked up a few decent paying clients from here over the years but the majority of them are just looking for penny-slaves.

    As stated in my signature since it was brought up, I'm in the process of launching a website for my services and then they're gone. I'm probably going back to my original rate which was $3.00 or maybe even higher.

    "You'll have less clients"
    That's also less I have to do to earn the same amount of money and I can actually put research, effort and thought into an article then as well instead of just cranking it out to make it worth my time.

    So, what should my signature have in it? Is that not what a signature is for? A lot of people who come to the Copywriting section are writers themselves or clients looking for writers.
     
    coreygeer, Jun 8, 2013 IP
  2. coreygeer

    coreygeer Notable Member

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    #22
    Also, I have a portfolio with about 40+ articles that I send to clients if they request for one.

    Most people never tell you what sites they're going to publish your work on or what they plan on doing with them so it was easier for me just to keep them in a .rar file rather than track websites down.
     
    coreygeer, Jun 8, 2013 IP
  3. Mystique

    Mystique Well-Known Member

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    #23
    Not just at Digitalpoint but anywhere on the web (and real-life) it's common getting people asking for samples, even to apply for a position at some freelance writing gigs.

    I wouldn't waste my time writing samples if people can judge my writing skills by simply getting in touch with me.

    If I want to get hired, I wouldn't reply "ur msg intrest me" or things like those people reply in the marketplace here.
     
    Mystique, Jun 8, 2013 IP
  4. aidanriley629

    aidanriley629 Banned

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    #24
    Hahaha, yes, DP.
     
    aidanriley629, Jun 8, 2013 IP
  5. coreygeer

    coreygeer Notable Member

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    #25

    People do the same thing on the WF.

    I usually see people responding to every "WTB" thread with,

    "I can do this, PMd you"
    "Plz get in contact I do this for you"
    "Sir I can has this job?"
    "Check you PMs"

    It's pretty common to see your inbox flooded with crap like that when you put out a job for just about anything, whether the people applying have any idea how to do the job or not. Most of the time, they don't even read the instructions or the job posting, they're just spamming everyone that has a job available.

    I haven't recruited anyone in over a year and I STILL to this day get people adding me on Skype and e-mailing me to offer their services. Then again, I think that's partly because they blindly add anyone and everyone hoping that they'll just have work available.
     
    coreygeer, Jun 8, 2013 IP
  6. aidanriley629

    aidanriley629 Banned

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    #26
    On DP, yeah. They're just glad you SPEAK English. You go on any actual writing job interview, though, and say "don't worry, I've got this", they'll laugh you out the door.
     
    aidanriley629, Jun 9, 2013 IP
  7. Senobia

    Senobia Notable Member

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    #27
    Corey - you get annoyed by every kind of post on here. :D

    It's fun (and necessary) to call out these .00009 per word rate buyers and their asinine requests. I do it myself, but you shouldn't let them bother you to the degree that it does. Once you realize that these guys are NOT your targeted market because they don't (won't? can't?) pay the wages you request, you will also realize that the people who DO go for these paltry gigs are NOT your competition because you don't WANT the jobs they're willing to take.


    So long as people accept the paltry offers, the paltry offers will keep coming. If they don't think enough of themselves to value their craft and their talent, why should you care if they're taken gross advantage of repeatedly?
     
    Senobia, Jun 9, 2013 IP
  8. Tarissa

    Tarissa Active Member

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    #28
    I see a lot of your posts, Corey. In fact, as a brand new freelancer it was one of your posts that has me seriously debating what to charge for my writing. I'm an excellent writer, but brand new to freelancing and starting out here on DP. What you say makes me feel like I should come out of the gate asking for more than 1 cent per word, however, I don't see how a beginner really even gets to ask for that.

    I'm struggling to get anyone to return well-written, perfectly comprehensible PMs to me on here. That's the kind of thing that, as a new writer, makes me feel like I need to write for 1 cent/word. And that, in turn, frustrates people like you.

    But what are we supposed to do as new writers without that strong client base who want to break into this business? It seems like you have to work for pennies. I just spent three hours writing what I think is probably excellent content and I made roughly 21 dollars. I can't live on that, but.. what else can you do? At least until you find those clients who realize your value and will pay you what you're worth?
     
    Tarissa, Jun 9, 2013 IP
  9. Spoiltdiva

    Spoiltdiva Acclaimed Member

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    #29
    What really speeds the process up is client references. Nothing impresses me more than this. If I have 2 writers who have submitted rates and they are both talented, the one with client references would be the one I'd check out first.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
    Spoiltdiva, Jun 9, 2013 IP
  10. Tarissa

    Tarissa Active Member

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    #30
    So would you suggest working for 1 cent/word when you don't have those? I've been writing various things (blog posts, articles, content, etc.) for a few weeks to get used to it and get comfortable. I feel I'm ready to run, but have no client feedback because I've been writing for a friend. I suppose I have her feedback. haha

    That's really what I'm getting at here, though. Corey talks about being so frustrated when good writers write for so little, but I'm struggling to find what other options new writers have.
     
    Tarissa, Jun 9, 2013 IP
    Emma Pollard likes this.
  11. coreygeer

    coreygeer Notable Member

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    #31
    Tarissa, you have to understand your market as well.

    Look around the marketing forums such as here and Warrior Forum. The majority of the people we contact whenever a "WANTING TO HIRE" thread comes up are people from foreign countries. The majority of them have barely enough money to pay for the writing they do want done, so you can bet your ass they're going to be incredibly picky.

    Why don't they write the articles themselves? No idea... maybe it's laziness or maybe they're hoping some .50c writer will rock their world and kick start a business for them to make money.

    Avoid them all together. I've tried educating people and telling people they're just wasting money hiring people for that price but they never listen to me. The simple fact you can write coherent English in the first place raises your value.

    Seriously, put out an ad saying you're looking for a "NATIVE ENGLISH WRITER ONLY" and see what kind of replies you get. Your inbox is flooded with agencies, firms and a ton of applicants who didn't even bother reading more than the title of the thread. You get used to being called "sir" very quickly.

    Honestly, just don't write for them. You can probably get a Level 4 start on Textbroker if they like your sample and you'll be earning more than $1 per 100 words. They pay on Fridays but at least you KNOW you're getting paid.

    Writing for cheap people sucks.. plain and simple. Chasing them down and trying to collect payment (because they never pay upfront) is not something I miss doing. It's as easy as saying, "I'm sorry I couldn't help you, but I wish you the best of luck in your business."

    Let them fiddle with over $1.00 writers until they waste all their money, complain that their content they received is crap and go back to the drawing board. Also, don't spend too much time researching something for pennies. I understand you want to produce quality, but I'm sure as hell not going to spend an hour or more researching a delicate topic for $5-10.

    That's what clients don't understand about writing for cheap, we have to provide quality for more work but we also have to work under a certain time constraint that makes it worth it for us. For some people that's $12 an hour, for some it's $20 or for some it might be even more.

    THERE ARE writers out there charging $50 per article or even more (no joke). However, the majority of clients who order at these prices already have their writers and they don't need to chase down good clients anymore. It's rare to find high paying clients on a forum in the first place. The majority of forum users are penny chasers who for some reason expect miracles out of nothing.

    Hell, for $1, you could write the articles for yourself and start niche blogs with AdSense for more profit in the long run. I'm writing for $1.50 until my website gets set up (I'm pretty picky so we'll see) and then I'm going with the route.

    I highly advise every coherent and skilled writer setup a website and focus on obtaining clients that way. Finding decent clients in the forums is not profitable and they're all under the impression that .50c-1.00 is a good rate for skilled writing that converts and performs. Like I said, the best of luck to those people, but you don't have to be one of those writers under the whip.

    Your pricing sets the kind of clients you're going to work with. I've worked with $5 clients and I've worked with $15 clients and honestly, the only different was that they were willing to pay $10 more and I could put more time into it. I still had to chase people down, I still had trouble getting a hold of people, etc.

    The great thing about this business is, if someone tries to scam you via PayPal with "I DIDN'T GET MY ARTICLES", then you can just call up PayPal, tell them it was a virtual service and they'll rule it in your favor. At least we're protected that way...
     
    coreygeer, Jun 9, 2013 IP
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  12. Emma Pollard

    Emma Pollard Active Member

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    #32
    I have done a couple of free samples in the past, it shows the client the writing style of the author and give the author a clearer understanding of the work itself. I won't make a habit of it and have only done these if it doesn't interfere with my current workload and the actual gig is worth it. I also would only do a short piece as it worries me when I give something away, will they just use that and not pay for it? I am by no means implying that everyone who asks for a sample is a thief but you just don't know until it is too late!
     
    Emma Pollard, Jun 10, 2013 IP
  13. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #33
    Stop giving away samples. Build a blog or website. Monetize it, if you want. Use it to showcase your writing as well as you knowledge of SEO. Someone still asks for a sample on a particular topic? Post it on your site. At least that way, they won't get free content from you if they're intending to steal from you.
     
    YMC, Jun 10, 2013 IP
    Tarissa likes this.
  14. oo87

    oo87 Well-Known Member

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    #34
    There is nothing wrong with samples versus portfolios. I think you have to keep in mind that not everyone here is operating in the same way, or for the same reasons. For example, I have always been a casual freelancer who supplements other household income with my work. If I were more full time, I would create a portfolio and monetize the website, but I have never had any need.

    When giving samples, you always provide one that is published under your own name from a third party source. At least, that has always been my method of assuring the client that I wrote the original. Along with a couple of references of regular clients I ghostwrite for, it is more than enough to authenticate my abilities.

    Plus, they always have the option of seeking out my posts here if I happen to be conversing with them through Digital Point (I rarely find clients here).

    These issues are rarely black and white. It becomes more a matter of preference between the writer and the client, and the needs around the one providing the samples/portfolio.

    That being said, I would never provide a 'free' sample written for that client. I have had requests before, and flat out refused to work for that person. In my experience, it is only a way to con free content.
     
    oo87, Jun 10, 2013 IP
  15. AndrewCavanagh

    AndrewCavanagh Member

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    #35
    If you're a direct response copywriter (in other words if you write sales letters, landing pages etc with the intent of selling something) then your style of writing can be very obvious from samples of your work.

    Also your ability to sell with words becomes really obvious.

    Most direct response copywriters have no problem providing samples of their work because they can put up a page with links on it like this...
    http://www.freelanceonlinecopywriter.com/samples.html

    In that field clients are paying multiple thousands of dollars for a sales letter too and just seeing some samples is enough in many cases for them to decide if a particular copywriter is who they're looking for.

    If someone is paying $5 an article on the other hand it doesn't seem to be a huge risk to hire someone to write an article.

    If I was going to have someone write articles I'd still like to see some of their past work though.

    That would give me a good idea if they have the style and quality of work I'd be looking for.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
     
    AndrewCavanagh, Jun 24, 2013 IP
  16. ImagineThat

    ImagineThat Greenhorn

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    #36
    I never write free samples. Ever. It's generally a scam if a potential client asks for free work. If they have so little money that they can't pay a few writers to try them out, then they're not my target market.

    Part of my job as a marketing copywriter is to match the style and voice that is appropriate for the client, yes, but they can discover my skill level by hiring me for a small project. And by working together on a small gig, both you and the client get to know each other and learn a bit about their approval process, payment habits, etc.

    I have a small portfolio that I show potential clients, but honestly, I find that a long list of testimonials is more effective for landing copywriting gigs.
     
    ImagineThat, Jul 4, 2013 IP