Selling PR6 website - Online since 1999 - Original Content

For the original poster:

Check out BizBuySell.com, might be a better place to list a site like
this. Currently there are more than 65 internet related business for
sale in excess of $350,000.

They get much more exposure to "big money" since they advertise
offline in many business mags, and the wall street journal.

Personally, if I were in your position I would do a little remodel
to the graphics of your site (sorry, no offense intended, it just
didn't "hit-me"). Then hire a quality direct response copywrighter
and create a targeted direct mail to as many top IP law firms
as you can dig up. Maybe try to sniff out any IP firms that are
going after SEO, etc. Try to think where your potential buyer
is going to hang out. (hint: he's probably not at DP where
header graphics trade for $2).

Try to think along these lines, "if I owned a $50mil law firm and
wanted to attract revenue through the web, where would
I go for help?" Would I use a free hit counter from statcounter
or would I be on the phone with omniture for an enterprise
grade solution? Try to get into the mind of your buyer and then
seek him out by looking for him in the places that he is going
for help.

This could be positioned as an incredible value to the right
audience. Clearly the money in this site is not in PPC ads or
in promoting lame affiliate programs. For a large firm that is
seriously pursuing onine marketing channels, and is deeply
invested in SEO, 350k might be a drop in the bucket.

And for those saying its overpriced, get real....
He's offering a finders fee, shouldn't be too hard to
figure out what to do next, instead of wasting time
telling him his site's worth 5k, don't you think?

 

Rising-

Thanks for all these great suggestions. I have had IPWatchdog.com for so long that I am starting to miss the forest for the trees. I know that what you are saying is 100% correct, but sometimes you need to have others put it to you.

If the right offer comes along I will take it, in the meantime I am going to do what you suggest.

Thanks again.

_Gene

 

Hi there Gene,

First off, let me compliment you - this is a nice site, with a solid genuine history. You are correct in expecting more money than a simple expression of revenue multiplied. A 10x revenue model is woefully inadequate here. But, that being said, an investor will only want to wait so long before his purchase is "paid off" and the site is generating revenue.

Even at 48x, and (if I read this correct) let's say you average $2000 revenue a month, that is a selling price of approx $100000.

Personally I think you should keep the site and let it generate passive revenue for you. A better Adsense placement would also increase your monthly earnings.

But if you are keen to sell, I would suggest a listing at Sitepoint.com or on sedo.com.

Good luck with your sale,
tasty

Addition - I love your graphics btw, have no idea what rising4ce is criticizing, think he should be more specific if he wants to be helpful

 

Gene,
I wish you the best of luck in your search for a buyer.

I went back and checked it out a little more. There is
a wide array of excellent content that you have produced.
kudos to you.

The previous post asked what I was reffering to regarding my
graphics comment, and stated I should be more specific if I wanted
to be helpful.

I was trying to be specific with some actionable ideas for
selling the site, but in regards to the design...

I apologize for interjecting my personal opinions into
your sale listing when you clearly didn't ask for a critique.
Just trying to be helpful, sorry...

If you happen to want my opinions, feel free to PM me. (Although
I couldn't even imagine why you would want my opinions
when my wife doesn't even want them...)

Best of luck to a profitable sale,

Jim

 

Rising-

Thanks for your input, and thanks for the kind comments about my site. I appreciate any and all feedback/input.

-Gene

 

But what your not understanding is that, websites sell for 10-14 months earnings usually. The site (which is very nice by the way) isnt going to sell for 350k.

Potential, while often mentioned, isnt much of a selling factor. Imagine my trying to sell you a house and saying it could potentially be worth alot more if you remodeled the kitchen, bath and did some landscaping - so I want you to pay me a price thats much more then the house is worth now. You woud leave shaking your head. Thats what most of us are doing, shaking our heads.

I dont think anyone trying to be rude here, we just all think your being a bit unrealistic and are trying to help you realize that.

Now, what I would suggest, is that you try to sell it through the bar association or other legal association, since to maintain the information on the site it will take a lawyer, and a lawyer will be able to benefit from the site in other ways as well. You might be able to get more 'potential' value from the sale.

 

Hey Gene

This is a great web site. I must admit. While the potetial is there.. the revenue is not. Most people here at DP will look at the revenue before they even click the web site link. Thats what is important here.

Though your niche is clearly one on its own, its not somthing that is earning a great deal compared to your asking price.

Im going to pm you a couple of web sites that may be a better place to sell your site.

Thanks
Martyn

 

Joey,
I am not sure where the 8 to 14 times income came from but it is popular on the web. If I can get a site for 8 to 14 times monthly income I know I am almost stealing something. There are business valuation firms and business brokers that use things like the Discounted Cash Flow model which would leads to values closer to price closer to 10 to 20 years of profit, effectively like a selling a bond at 5 to 10% interest. Most websites don't have a longterm value but in this case the site does and the seller should improve the revenue and sell the site through a broker.

 

Just Advice.

If you're doing good with this website and have proofs of your income to show, then i'd advice to list it on
www.businessesforsale.com and
www.bizbuysell.com

I Have a little experience with them and they are pretty good to attract business buyers.

 

Montux-

Thanks for the suggestions. I will check those places out.

-Gene

 

Joey-

I do well understand that websites sell for in the range of 1 year worth of earnings, but this is a general rule and for websites. What I am selling is much more than a website. Essentially, what I am selling is a business, and businesses sell for far more than 1 year worth of earings.

I do really appreciate all that everyone has been saying on this thread. Both in this thread and in participating in other threads on DP I have learned quite a lot, so I am grateful. The one thing that I would like to point out, however, is that everyone here is focusing on the fact that the site is only bringing in $2000 a month with respect to AdSene and affiliate programs. That is a drop in the bucket. The real money is for a firm, likely a law firm, search firm or some kind of start-up business consulting firm.

Prior to adding AdSense and the affiliate programs I was making $3000 to $4000 a month in legal fees from people who just came to my site looking for help. I also turned away a lot of work because I didn't have the time to take on major projects. So I know that if the right buyer can be found they will immediately start making at least the $3000 to $4000, and likely upwards of $10,000. One patent application client would bring in at least $5,000 to $10,000, and I know that the site could generate at least one of those a month right away.

Also, unlike many of the websites that are for sale here on DP and elsewhere at various places on the Internet, the buyer who acquires IPWatchdog.com will immediately remove AdSense and immediately remove the affiliate programs, so focusing on that revenue is really not wise. Both AdSense and the affiliate program through LegalZoom would siphon off clients who could be obtained by the firm who acquires IPWatchdog.com. The only reason I have them up there is because it is bringing in passive income. The buyer would not want passive income. In other words, what I am saying is that the buyer who is a match is one who will want to work the site traffic aggressively rather than just sit back and let the site earn monthly income passively.

As many have suggested, I doubt that the buyer for this site is on DP. Nevertheless, I am trying to explain all of this so those interested get a better understanding. Earlier in the thread I mentioned that a lead that results in a sale would be financially rewarded. That offer still stands. I am trying to find a buyer myself, but if you know of someone or a company that might be interested please let me know.

Thanks everyone.

-Gene

 

Martyn-

Thanks for the PM. I appreciate the help.

-Gene

 

There are a lot of places where sites can be sold but if you aren't an experienced seller there are a lot of mistakes you could make if you do the listing yourself - from linking directly to your site (without a tinyurl type redirect) to not including a (nominal) time cost for webmaster/manager when talking figures (fraud/fraudulent misrepresentation). It doesn't matter for the two penny sites but the higher the price the more careful you need to be.

 

Foggy-

I can understand explaining the webmast/manager time, but I don't understand why the tinyurl matters. What is the reason for that?

With respect to IPWatchdog.com, the time that would need to be spent on it would really be dependent upon what someone wanted to do with it. I am constantly adding new content. What I figure will happen is that a law firm will buy it and they would likely want the site redesigned to match their current website and then take the content and populate the newly designed pages. Whoever buys the site will do so because of the search ranking, but will likely want to make the site their own.

I am also willing to stay on for an agreed upon time to continue writing content. IPWatchdog has largely become synonymous with me in the industry, so whoever buys it should want me to stay on in some capacity so that the good will I have developed with IPWatchdog can be transferred to the buyer.

-Gene

 

Here are the page ranks for some of my various pages:


Page Rank
IPWatchdog.com 6
IPWatchdog.com/uspto.html 6
IPWatchdog.com/internet.html 6
IPWatchdog.com/antitrust.html 6
IPWatchdog.com/gene.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/about.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/patent.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/patent_search.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/provisional_patents.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/nonprovisional.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/create_application.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/patent_cost.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/inventors_workshop.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/protect_idea.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/patent_drawings.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/patent_application.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/confidentiality_agreements.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/design_patents.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/busmethpat.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/patentmuseum.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/copyright.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/trademark.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/tradesecret.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/invent_idea_cos.html 5
IPWatchdog.com/trademark_application.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/ntp.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/idea_to_patent.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/patentability_requirements.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/animal_toy.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/copyright_application.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/fairuse.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/recipes.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/first_sale.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/work_for_hire.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/patent_infringement.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/copyright_infringement.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/patent_damages.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/trademark_search.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/trademark_role.html 4
IPWatchdog.com/trademark_types.html 4

 

<b>SEARCH TERMS RANKING</b>

Here is a list of some of the key phrases that I know IPWatchdog.com ranks very well for. See the list at:

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/search_term_ranking.html

As you can see there are quite a number of highly desirable terms here, in what is a VERY competitive market.

To illustrate the competitiveness, for one search phrase "idea patent", in order to get into the top 3 for Yahoo pay per click you would have to bid at least $2.72, to get into the top 2 you would have to bid at least $3.78 and to get into the top position for this phrase you would have to bid $5.40. IPWatchdog.com currently ranks as follows for this single term:

Google = 3
Yahoo = 2
MSN = 2

This page that these free rankings point to is:

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/protect_idea.html

This page had 1539 visitors to IPWathdog.com enter through this page in August. Therefore, to acquire that type of traffic a firm or company not in the free rankings would have to spend over $4,000 to acquire similar PPC placement and traffic for a single month, and that is only 1 of the many desired phrases IPWatchdog.com is in the top for.

<b>IPWATCHDOG.COM VALUATION</b>

As everyone in this industry knows, it is exceptionally difficult to put a value on a domain name. Compounding this problem is that the various known domain name valuation methodologies available all suffer from one or more problems. This is largely due to the fact that virtually all domain name valuation methodologies are geared toward determining whether a particular name has intrinsic value as a domain name. Such methodologies completely ignore, among other things, traffic already being generated by an existing domain name, search term popularity, good will, existing website content and ongoing business operations.

There is one domain name valuation methodology that does attempt to address the need to factor into consideration market, link popularity and branding potential. SwiftAppraisal.com estimates that the value of the domain name – IPWatchdog.com – is between $78,000.00 and $250,000.00, depending upon differing selected characteristics descriptive of IPWatchdog.com. Nevertheless, SwiftAppraisal.com does not factor a number of things into its calculation, including search engine popularity, desirability of search terms, the value of products/services sold, existing good will and traffic presently arriving at the site.


PROPOSAL

The selling price for IPWatchdog.com and the content of the website is $350,000.00. The proceeds of the sale of IPWatchdog.com could be paid as follows:

$ 125,000.00 due upon transfer of domain name
$ 75,000.00 due 1st anniversary of transfer (2008 payment)
$ 75,000.00 due 2d anniversary of transfer (2009 payment)
$ 75,000.00 due 3d anniversary of transfer (2010 payment)

The purchase price of $350,000.00 equates to roughly $.41 per free unique visitor to IPWatchdog.com over a four (4) year term, assuming that IPWatchdog.com continues to average only the same number of free unique visitors as it has over the past ten (10) months.

Additionally, for an additional monthly payment Gene Quinn will agree to continue to write original content for the site through receipt of the final payment, which can be extended by agreement of the parties. The monthly payment would vary depending upon the level of new content desired.

<b>FINDERS FEE</b>

I am still happy to pay a finders fee for any lead that results in a sale. If you are interested send me a PM and we can take it from there.

Thanks.

-Gene

 

And you aren't concerned about the one million potholes between those two?

1. You're wasting your time trying to promote nitty-gritty like page level PR to the audience here. Especially as the site, as it currently stands, is useful only to a legal firm, and a specialised one at that!

2. With respect, you don't really have a business.

3. Following a private exchange with you I don't believe you are serious about selling at all.

No, they won't.

I see this happen all the time. Someone owns a site that brings them business (from SEO to webdesign to CAD to tattoos) and mistakenly believe that the site is a business. No matter how smart they are in their respective professions they are often big zeros at business (though they usually don't admit it). They may have spent years creating the site but all they have created is a job for themselves.

Stop deluding yourself that this is a "business".

There are some ignorant remarks here about valuing a site based on multiples. I've got news for the nay-sayers: All businesses are valued based on a multiple of current earnings if those are expected to continue. That's the crucial bit. Past profits aren't important at all. Zero. Except if they provide a guide to future profit. This applies to big listed companies (heard of P/E ratios?) as much as it does to small websites. What about youtube, you ask? Answer: There is no exception. But youtube made no money? No, it didn't. In this case the price was based on expected future earnings, just like with every other site. Just like with businesses that have zero past profits but are sitting on a valuable mining licence. Just like businesses that haven't been trading but own a valuable patent. Just like a business on the verge of a cure for cancer.

"ipwatchdog" is, on its own, not a valuable domain. Reg fee is what it would be worth without the history, links, content, traffic etc. ipsafety, ipsecure, ipprotect, ipminder and similar are parked/available for a few dollars in the .com TLD.

Why won't some legal firm just grab this site and make millions on the business it generates? Because, it won't make millions. The quality of traffic hasn't been tested for conversion. Further bad news: It's likely to convert very badly. When owners of sites like yours do let a prospective purchaser test drive conversions they find it dismal, dismal, dismal ... and not a patch on the main PPC players.

 

Foggy-

You are completely wrong about everything that you are saying. In private communications I did not give you any reason to believe that I am not interested in selling the site. If I can get the price I deem appropriate I will indeed sell. You just seem to be upset by the fact that I have not followed up with you to talk to you about my site. I will report you and your trying to ruin this thread on me to the DP authorities. You are a real loser!

 

You may be mistaken, I'm not looking to represent you or your site!

But, by all means, report my post and if any senior member here with lots of business experience is willing to explain where and how I've made a factual mistake, I'll even apologise.

 

By the way Foggy... to say that the site is worth $35 is absolutely ridiculous. I hope that everyone here realizes that you are all talk. You obviously don't buy sites for what you say you do.

You also have absolutely no understanding of search engine importance, and you have absolutely no understanding of busines. When you say that all businesses are valued based on earnings you show your complete ignorance. There are many different business valuation techniques. To suggest that a business that has built up substantial assets is not worth anything is ridiculous. Whether you appreciate the asset that I have or not is not the point. But if you are going to be the dumbest person in the room you should not open your mouth and expose yourself. It is always better to just let others think you are stupid than to remove all doubt.

Even if the quality of traffic converts badly, 1 client to the right firm out of 19,000 a month would make the whole endeavor worthwhile. We are not talking about $10 products here. Many clients will spend tens of thousands of dollars.

Also, it has been tested for conversion. I was doing work for people without even trying to exploit the site and was making $3000 to $4000 a month, plus referring people to other attorneys who made money and now I am refering business to LegalZoom and they are making money doing Legal Work. To say that I have no idea about conversion is just plain wrong and shows you have not been reading this thread, yet you found it necessary to come at me.

Well my friend... you have come at... not something I would deem wise!

-Gene