Scientology: The Worlds Most Crazy Regilion?

you mean these nutjobs that strap semtex to kids and tell them to go walk up to troops?

 

That would not be a Scholar, that would be a heretic.

Although I don't mind blowing up troops, as long as it is done with real bombs.

 

so you have to submit to God to be a muslim, that is what it is to be a muslim. noted.

do you need to follow the practices of islam, like praying five times a day and observing ramadan in order to continue to submit to God or is it hommage to God(this is assuming that the person in question submitted to God already)?

the act of submitting to God, that is defined by the word of muslim does not include the following of islamic practices, right? correct me if wrong.

are you saying by definition that there were ineffective prophets or that some of the 28 prophets in the koran were ineffective? why would God emphasize the ineffectiveness of his prophets to mohammed and why would his companions write that down in the koran (if you are saying that there were only 28 prophets sent by God)?

while we at it please include the different definitions of "prophets" and "messengers" that you said about in your previous post.

"The parenthesis are added, it is to aid you to understand the verse. It's not a form of corruption, because you see the parenthesis, if I remove the parenthesis however, then you can call it corruption."

do you understand what you just posted? you threw away your entire argument about the "corrupt" torah and "corrupt" bible by calling the koran "corruption" (without parenthesis you said the koran is corrupt). are you saying you can't submit to God by reading the koran because it is corrupt (as deduced so far from your posts)?

in the king james bible, the last book in the new testament is called the book of revelations and this book of revelations is says this, verse 18 and 19:

"18: For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." source: http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/to...odeng/parsed&tag=public&part=22&division=div1

that is why the bible is open to interpretation because of the way it is written and the way you can't alter some of it's meaning much (well with these two verses specifically, they are forthright). most christains believe what they need to in order to fortify their belief of God, as deduced by me, based on so many different ways of believing in God. their belief is what is important, not the specifics of a possible "corrupt" book. some christians believe in altered versions of the bible and the king james version could be altered from some other version (it was interpreted from some source, you can find out more on google)

these holy books, the torah, the bible, the koran are guides for following God. that is my deduction so far.

you are saying that you will learn to submit to God from a book that is open to interpretation, as demonstrated by you with your parenthesis. correct me if i'm wrong. or are you saying the act of submitting to God is independent of the teachings of the koran?

your acknowledgement, the bible, and i'm guessing here because i have not read the torah but they all say that moses delivered the torah to the jews. i asked you if you have evidence that the jews "corrupted" the torah. the burden of proof for this arguement lies with you. you are accussing the torah of being "corrupt", not me. how can you say the torah is "corrupt" if you don't know about the first torah.

so far you responded to with text from the koran with your added interpretations in parenthesis. what firm evidence do you have?

"No, all Prophets that were sent to the Jews were Jews, - Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Moses, Jesus, and there may be more."

well, the bible says that these prophets that you mentioned were jews by birth.

"The Jews were very lucky people, they were the chosen people, but they failed to implement what they had been told, as said before they left a good part of the message, and they changed the words in the scriptures."

this is something, do followers of islam mostly agree that the jews are the chosen people? that's interesting. i forgot what verse in the bible that says this but there is something where it goes, " the jews will sit at the right hand of the father almighty in heaven". are you suggesting that the jews have lost favor to God now. in the bible God has forsaken the jews when they "lose their way".

is God favoring the children of hagar now more that the children of sarah? well, the jews got most of the land of israel back and it doesn't look like they are going to give it up based on help from america and its capabilites to defend itself now. but the childern of hagar are the most numerous based on religious following, interesting.

why are the childern of sarah the chosen people and the childern of hagar are not?

but the koran is open to interpretation, what if a person reads the koran, wanting to submit to God and does not? how do you know that you submitted to God? isn't the koran another holy book that someone can submit to through it?

do you think that islam will statistically enter every home? is that implying that every home that islam enters will turn those in the homes into muslims of the islamic faith?

what are you basing the tampering with? the koran? the koran was written after the torah was. it can considered that the koran is tampering with the torah. how do you know it was the jewish rabbi's who changed the torah or are you going to provide another verse from the koran that has your interpretations in parenthesis?

this is leading to what i hope is a conversation about the roots of the jews and followers of islam that are mostly arab-muslims or arabs in general.

1. you don't mind heretics leading those in your religion?

2. a person of the religion of peace doesn't mind blowing up troops? please elaborate.

 

There are practices that are obligatory..then you have those which are voluntary (meaning you don't need to do those..but you can if you want to).
The 5 daily prayers are obligatory, not voluntary.


However, does abandoning the 5 daily prayers mean that you are no longer a Muslim? It depends;

If the person is just lazy and sometimes prays and sometimes doesn't he is regarded as sinful but not a non-Muslim.

If the person completely abandons it..never performing the prayer he is considered as a non-Muslim.

There are things that will nullify your status as a Muslim..they are many..and as you study Islam you will learn about them.

Then there are things that will make you sinful.

Not by definition.

The people that a Prophet was sent to..simply were not willing to listen....they rejected the Prophet...similar to the Jews rejecting Jesus and attempting to kill him. it wasn't the fault of the Prophets.

Why does God narrate the stories of Prophets that preached to people who did not listen or accept the message:

1. You realize that you don't decide what the truth is (when it comes to religion) by merely looking at numbers. Like some narrow minded people choose Christianity as their religion because it supposedly has the largest amount of following.

2. What happens when you don't listen to what the Prophet is telling you? They always get a punishment in the end, that's after the Prophet had warned them. So these stories are emphasized by God because he wants us to know that we will also be punished if we reject His message.

So there is wisdom behind telling us about those true stories.

PS: There were more than 28 Prophets, but 29 of them are mentioned in our books by name and their stories are narrated to us.

A Messenger - " is one to whom a law is revealed and he is commanded to convey it" An example would be Abraham, Moses, Muhammad, Noah etc

A Prophet - one who brings information about Allaah and conveys His legislation, either being urged to do so (by Allaah) or without being urged. A Prophet can also be someone who continues with a law, some Prophets would continue with the law of the Messenger that came before him.

All Messengers are Prophets, but not all Prophets are Messengers.

Noah was the first Messenger.

No I didn't call the Quran corruption. I said that removing the parenthesis .. this >>> "(" and ")" ..without removing the content inside the parenthesis..that would be corruption because that is adding words to the Quran.

Is that clear..if not I will explain in more detail if you want.

What do you mean "open to interpretation"?

Give me an example.

Evidence for me would be that the Qur'an said it.

But we can look for evidence elsewhere..such the current Torah itself, did you know that the current Torah consists of 4 different Torah's that have been merged into 1?

Yes, that's fine...I can confirm that also.

"O children of Israel, remember my favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I favored you above all creation." (Qur'an 2:47). 2:122)

God tells us about the many things he did for the Jews elsewhere in the Qur'an.

In short they disobeyed God in many things, and punishment followed.

They not only lost the favor, but they earned the anger of God.

I don't know if the children of Hagar are being favoured more now (I didn't look it up).

I do remember an interesting passage from the bible:

"And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 17:20)"

God favours whom he wills..and he favoured the Jews back then...I don't know why (doesn't mean a reason doesn't exist though).

If he does not? God clearly says in the Qur'an what he will do with those who don't submit to his will - Eternal hell.

I don't understand the 2nd and the 3rd question.

The Prophet said, “This matter (Islam) will reach where the night and day reach, and Allah will enter it into every home, even if they were made from mud or hair by the might of those who are mighty and the disgrace of those who are disgrace; with glory that Allah glorifies Islam, and disgrace that He will disgrace disbelief with.”

EDIT: I don't know if this means that everyone will be Muslim , it doesn't necessarily have to mean that..it may mean that Islam will become majority and everyone will know about this religion.

Islam was revealed in the Arabic language, but not all Muslims are Arabs,and not all Arabs are Muslims, and the country with the most Muslims is Indonesia.

There is no race in Islam at all...The companions of the Prophet were not all Arabs..there was a Roman amongst them, a Jew and an Ethiopian etc.

I do mind.

I'm allowed to blow them up with bombs if they are attacking me, it's called self defence.

 

is there something physically or mentally you can feel or comprehend to tell you that you are a non-muslim? is there a physical or mental change to a person to indicate that they are muslim?
can others notice that you have not been keeping up with islamic practices, like abandoning the prayers?

"Why does God narrate the stories of Prophets that preached to people who did not listen or accept the message"

because God gave man free will and he sends his prophets to help keep the people he sent the prohpets on the right path or keep them in check or in line.

here are rebuttles to your numbered responses:

1. yes you don't decide what the truth is based on numbers, unless it is a point that is backed by numbers, i.e. saying that most people in the bible belt in the U.S. are republican. if you check the voting registration you find that it is true. and currently there are more muslims on the planet than roman catholics, but if you combine all christians that believe in christ then there are more christians than muslims. source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2008/03/30/uk-vatican-muslims-idUKL3068682420080330

i am not saying your point is backable by numbers i am pointing out that there are points that can backed by numbers.

2. jesus was sent to the jews when they were being punished, they rejected him and they were punished even more. hhmmm. the jews are prospering now with israel so the punishment doesn't last. but the failures of the prophets that testified for God are shown. so one can deduce that God does not win over the people through some of his prophets. so why talk about the tactic of prophets when they fail? is the almighty God not almighty? who am i submitting to, if i want to submit to God? here is something, what is the factor of free will when you submit to God?

i understand the fear factor of telling these stories about failed prophets and the results to the people, it's a tactic that some religions ploy. what if these tactics are ineffective, as already demonstrated by the prophets that failed?

yes their are 29 prophets mentioned in the koran, thanks for the correction.

so with mohammed, the last prophet, there will be no more messengers or prophets. the definition of prophet does not differ from the dictionary.com much in meaning, you just specified what a prophet in islamic interpretations does.

yes removing the parenthesis and leaving the content in the parenthesis would be corruption, but why add the parenthesis in the first place? was the koran not clear with it's first interpretation, like almost every other holy book, for one God, on this planet?

"“Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will belive in your religion in spite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allaah (the Tawraat), then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it?” [al-Baqarah 2:75"

you are assumming that "a party of them" refers to jewish rabbis. it is a guess or at best an assumption. "a party of them" is open to interpretation. it could refer to some of the ammorites or some of the babylonians that believed in the God of the jews, (pagans used to incorporate alot of ideas and ideals in their religious practices).

the three holy books about one God are all similar with their teaching techniques, vague statements open to interpretation. do you see those connections? i wonder why the believers of one God fight each other.

were these four different torahs from interpreters of moses? like the companions that wrote down the koran from mohammed?

this is what i found:

based on the documentary hypothesis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

in the link from wikipedia it says this:

"In an attempt to reconcile inconsistencies in the biblical text, and refusing to accept traditional explanations to harmonize them, 18th and 19th century biblical scholars using source criticism eventually arrived at the theory that the Torah was composed of selections woven together from several, at times inconsistent, sources, each originally a complete and independent document."

this torah combination idea was to help explain the biblical text and it did not accept traditional explanations.

see this torah explaination from a jewish source, it talks about three torahs but they are separate:

http://www.utom.org/articles/topics/Articles/Howmanytorahs.pdf

but they are in favor now, right? well, the jews were used as an example in some of the monotheistic religions.

i think some or most of those rulers have come and past. the bible didn't say they would be followers of islam then there would be twelve rulers and the ottoman empire has come and gone.

didn't abraham spend his time more with hagar and not with sarah, from the koran? aren't the jews favored now with the nation of israel?

i explained the open interpretation concept so far on this post. so is it possible for a person, who wants to submit to God, to not be successful with their attempts to submit to God, after reading the koran? and if that is possible can a person submit to God without reading the koran?

"how do you know that you submitted to God?" - this means how do you know that you have successfully submitted to God. how would a submitted person to God know that they have submitted to God?

"isn't the koran another holy book that someone can submit to through it?" - is the act of submitting to God predicated on reading the koran only or can someone submit to God without an importance on what they read?

is it to say that every person will have the chance to follow islam but may not choose islam?

i understand that being a muslim is not predicated on being an arab. muslim is not race. wow, a roman, jew and ethiopian all together with an arab during that time, that's cool. it was in jerusalem right, was it still occupied by romans at the time?

so if a heretic blows up those that are attacking you based on self defence, that is fine?

most blowing up of troops are revengeful in nature because the back and forth of fighting would stop if you are concerned with self defence. i.e. if you don't retaliate they would stop fighting back, so your self defence angle would not be an issue. what do you think?

 

I've never been a non-Muslim .. so I don't know what it feels like.

I do feel miserable when I leave off some practices..bad things start to happen to me..I can't say it's like that with everyone though.

The beard..trimmed moustache..The garment is above the ankles...loose clothing << when you see someone like this..he is most probably a Muslim.

But many Muslims don't do any of that, so you can;t really tell who is Muslim and who is not simply by looking at the appearance.

No..you can keep it secret without anyone finding out.

Okay.

I didn't say he was sent "while" they were being punished...and I also didn't say that the punishment lasts..just because one is a Jew doesn't mean you will be punished because some of your ancestors disobeyed God.

I could possibly bring some narrations what exactly happened with the Jews in more detail, but that's going to take up too much time.

An example what God did with those who disbelieved:

And indeed We punished the people of Fir'aun (Pharaoh) with years of drought and shortness of fruits (crops), that they might remember (take heed). (130) But whenever good came to them, they said: "Ours is this." And if evil afflicted them, they ascribed it to evil omens connected with Mûsa (Moses) and those with him. Be informed! Verily, their evil omens are with Allâh but most of them know not. (131) They said [to Mûsa (Moses)]: "Whatever Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) you may bring to us, to work therewith your sorcery on us, we shall never believe in you." (132) So We sent on them: the flood, the locusts, the lice, the frogs, and the blood: (as a succession of) manifest signs, yet they remained arrogant, and they were of those people who were Mujrimûn (criminals, polytheists sinners). (133) And when the punishment fell on them they said: "O Mûsa (Moses)! Invoke your Lord for us because of His Promise to you. If you remove the punishment from us, we indeed shall believe in you, and we shall let the Children of Israel go with you." (134) But when We removed the punishment from them to a fixed term, which they had to reach, behold! they broke their word! (135) So We took retribution from them. We drowned them in the sea, because they belied Our Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and were heedless about them. (136) (Ch 7:130-133 Quran)

It is the fear that one attains from reading something like this, that's why God narrates these stories to us.

I don't agree that a Prophet failed if he didn't get any followers, the reality is that man can sometimes be arrogant, stubborn and quarrelsome.

Moses for instance did not fail with Pharaoh, it's Pharoah who failed, and God just wants us to know that he has punished before, and He will do it again. By the way, one of the favours God done for the Israelites is free them from slavery in Egypt....the same God that sent Prophets to Israelites, has now sent Muhammad (peace be upon him) for all of mankind instead of a specific people.

Another point - God shows us that he is just, he warns you before punishing you, and he gives you the chance to avoid punishment.

It has to be interpreted or explained if you will, because the language used is very strong and eloquent, especially the Arabic text, so if you was to read a plain Quran without parenthesis, you would have to stop and study each verse for its meaning, the parenthesis just makes it easy for you.

Sure, some heretic can come along and give a wrong interpretation, but it's upon you to question the interpretation, and ask for the evidence, because the interpretation has to be based on evidence.

Do you remember the children and dogs from the other thread? I added the parenthesis there, to aid the reader in understanding the first time, otherwise he has to think a few times before getting that it was Jews and non Jews. That's what parenthesis are there for, it's to aid you.

It's not an assumption, we know who and what is being talked about, there is evidence for this, but I just can't be bothered to gather it all.

It's true that sometimes the meaning of words, verses, passages are not clear, but that's fine, you can research and find out the meanings.

Sometimes, you cannot know the meaning of something..only God knows the meaning and He has not made a way for us to know:

It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur'ân). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkâm (commandments, etc.), Al-Farâ'id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers, etc.)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials, etc.), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allâh. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Tafsir At-Tabarî). (Aali Imran 3:7)

In the above verse God tells us that there are things in the Qur'an that are not so clear.

What I was getting to was: Why are there 4 different Torahs? Which is the real one? If there are really different Torahs..then Isn't the Quran right about people tampering with the original Torah?

And I'm not talking about 4 different interpretations..I'm talking about 4 different text.

The Companions of the Prophet didn't just write the Qur'an on whatever they could write it on, but they memorized it and passed down the Qur'an verbally, we still keep this tradition, and even if we lost the book, we still have thousands of people if not millions who have memorized the entire Qur'an. So we have the original text. Just like the Jews and Christians we sometimes differ over interpretations because we have people that interpret in a wrong way on purpose, and those that genuinely make a mistake, neverthless we have the original plain Qur'an, do you have the original text of the Torah?

They are not in favor, the once that were in favor passed away a long time ago.

Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad (peace be upon him) saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish."

Quraish is a tribe from the Arabs.

Our scholars link the prophecy in the bible with this above Hadeeth.

4 of these rulers have gone, there are 8 more to come.

The twelve Muslim rulers are also known as Caliphates. The rulers of the Ottomon Empire were not from the tribe of Quraish so they are not considered to be 1 of the Princes/Rulers.

They are all descendants of Ishmael.

Because you mentioned the Ottoman Empire, I thought I'd add this:

Abu Qubail said, “We were with `Abdullah bin `Amr bin al-`Aas when he was asked, 'Which of the two cities will be conquered first, Constantinople (Istanbul) or Rome?' So `Abdullah called for a box that had a lock and it, and took a book out of it. He then said, 'When we were sitting with Allah's Messenger writing, he was asked, ' Which of the two cities will be conquered first, Constantinople or Rome?' He said, 'The city of Heraclius will fall first.' Meaning, 'Constantinople.'”

Constantinople fell and taken by Muslims.

There are many such prophecies, some have occurred.

I don't know who he spend time with more. I do know that Abraham, Ishmael and Hagar went to live in Mekkah, Abraham rebuilt the Kaaba (originally built by Adam).

Those who still stick to the fake Torah? no..they are not favored at all. As for those that are Jews by ethnicity, they are just normal ordinary people, we are all the same, nobody is being favored more than others as far as I know.

About the nation of Israel, just because some people came to take a small land in the Middle East doesn't mean anything significant.

Without reading the Qur'an you will not know the will of God..i.e what he wants from you.

I do as God tells me to do, that's what submitting is.

Answered this.

 

you don't have to say that he was sent while they were punished, it is recorded in history outside of the bible and torah.

"just because one is a Jew doesn't mean you will be punished because some of your ancestors disobeyed God."

in the bible after moses freed the slaves they were punished by God to wander the wilderness for 40 years, this by measurment is an approximate period of a generation but generations ovelap, based on yearly births.

"I don't agree that a Prophet failed if he didn't get any followers, the reality is that man can sometimes be arrogant, stubborn and quarrelsome."

that's right, man can be "arrogant, stubborn and quarrelsome" sometimes. a prophets has to reach his followers with these possibilities. if a prophet does not succeed, it can be considered a failure.

"Moses for instance did not fail with Pharaoh, it's Pharoah who failed, and God just wants us to know that he has punished before, and He will do it again."

if it was the intent of moses to reach the pharoh and he did not reach him, he failed with the pharoh.

"By the way, one of the favours God done for the Israelites is free them from slavery in Egypt"

noted

"It has to be interpreted or explained if you will, because the language used is very strong and eloquent, especially the Arabic text, so if you was to read a plain Quran without parenthesis, you would have to stop and study each verse for its meaning, the parenthesis just makes it easy for you.

Sure, some heretic can come along and give a wrong interpretation, but it's upon you to question the interpretation, and ask for the evidence, because the interpretation has to be based on evidence."

you are supposed to read the text and understand it. if you add parenthesis to a text to alter the meaning of the text. and good point about wrong interpretations. the words in parenthesis are to help with the interprertation. what if one's interpretation in the parenthesis makes sense and another's interpretation in the parenthesis makes sense also? what interpretation is to be followed?

if you are saying the arabic translation of the koran is altered when translated into english, then the way to submit to God is from learning everything about the arabic language and accepting the teachings of a arabic written koran. because the english language can be interpretaed in so many ways.

or are the words in your parenthesis the way it would be interpreted into english. but if that is the case, why wasn't it translated into english with the words you add in parenthesis? but that can go to the when the koran was translated into english and the way english was spoken at the time of translation.

question, are there different versions of the koran translated into english, like the bible, because of way it was translated into english initailly?

"Do you remember the children and dogs from the other thread? I added the parenthesis there, to aid the reader in understanding the first time, otherwise he has to think a few times before getting that it was Jews and non Jews. That's what parenthesis are there for, it's to aid you."

you don't have to add parenthesis to the bible but understand what it says, like the way i explained these verses with separate sentences outside of the biblical text. christians use the bible to help them believe in God, while you say you can not submit to God through these "corrupt" texts. from our coversation so far i ask you, do you currently have a strong stance on this?

is your claim based upon:

1. other references in the koran that clearly considers the phrase "a party of them" to be jewish rabbis?
2. another source outside of the koran?
3. the mis-translation of this prhase from arabic to english?

two things from:

1. so there are verses that are not clear, so why add the parenthesis in the first place?
2. reading the koran is not needed to submit to God, so why is reading a "corrupt" source like the bible or torah not helpful for a person to submit to God? one can hear the teachings of "Al-Ahkâm (commandments, etc.), Al-Farâ'id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers, etc." and not read the koran.

did you not read the content in this link?

http://www.utom.org/articles/topics/Articles/Howmanytorahs.pdf

there are 3 torahs, 1 written source and 2 oral sources.

that was how the torahs came to be for the jews. did God instruct mohammed better based from his failures with the other prophets from the past? and the koran has the things that the other torahs make up for, for each other (one torah has more laws than the others, for example). the initial torah did not have many laws in it, but the other torahs made up for it.

are you saying that the lineage of sarah is wiped out from the earth? why would God do that to the children of Abraham? is this what you mean by the "tribe" of jews?

did mohammed specify the people that would conquer constantinople would be from Quraish? and the second part of the prophecy did not come true yet. do you think this would a prophecy that would come true because part of it came true already?

so in the koran abraham favored hagar and in the bible abraham favored sarah.

the jews are favored now with the rise of israel and with jerusalem belonging to the jews? and the bible says that abraham favored sarah.

so you are saying the current jews are not from the lineage of sarah and that these current jews follow a fake torah. these jews are stepping up efforts to remove the dome of the rock and re-build the temple mount. are you saying this isn't significant?

but your can hear it from teachings. also refer to the part of this post about the interpretations of the english language for most text wriiten in the past. isn't it possible to submit to God without reading the koran?

are you hearing voices or are you saying you follow what you hear from teachings and what you read from the koran?

 

This happens sometimes, where you have 2 different interpretations and they are both plausible, what we do is go with the one that has the strongest evidence.

Although we differ sometimes, we never differ over the fundamentals of the religion, we have consensus on the fundamentals.

But sometimes in the branches we differ, and we don't make a big deal about it.

The reason people differ is not because there is something wrong with what God revealed, but because the people are prone to making mistakes.

The truth is still 1, just because there are 2 interpretations that both make sense does not mean that both are true, rather one is wrong and one is right, it's just that you cannot see it due to lack of knowledge.

The Qur'an is only in Arabic, there is no such thing as an English Quran.

When you read the English translation, you are reading the interpretation of the Qur'an in English, but not an English Qur'an.

There are different English translations, there some poor ones out there, and the best one is by Mohsin Khan.

There is only 1 Qur'an version in the Arabic language. There are different versions in the English language.

The reason there are different English translations is because there are some deviant sects out there who have interpreted the Qur'an in their own way, then translated their interpretation into English.

Strong stance on what?

The context of the verses indicates that the Torah is being talked about.

" a party of them" means Jewish Rabbis because at the end of the verse it says that it was a people who understood the Word of Allaah (Torah):

a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allâh [the Taurât (Torah)], then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it? (Al-Baqarah 2:75)

So after they understood the Torah they then changed the text knowingly. someone who understood the Torah is known as a scholar right? When we say rabbi we just mean scholar, I know there are different definitions for rabbi, but we mean "scholar".."a party of them " refers to the Jewish Scholars,

1. Parenthesis are not used for unclear words and verses.
2. You are right you don't have to read the Qur'an, you can listen to someone who is teaching the Qur'an.

Why is reading a corrupt source like the bible not helpful to submit to God? First of all God abrogated his previous scriptures with the Qur'an, secondly the bible/torah are corrupt, it's a mixture of truth and falsehood, and therefore you don't know which parts are correct, so it leaves you confused, even though you think you are not, and your are doing the wrong things in this life, even though you think you are doing right.

I followed the link and the article has many terminologies that I don't what they mean.

According to tradition the current Torah was written by Moses..correct?

But according to scientific research the current Torah consists of 4 or more different Torahs there were merged together..am I correct?

I didn't say anything like this.

No he didn't...I just mentioned the fall of Constantinople once you brought up the Ottoman empire.

I don't think, I know it will come true, there's no doubt about that.

I don't know who he "favored" more. All I know at this point is that he left with Hagar and Ishmael to Mekkah. Maybe he traveled to Sarah sometimes? I don't know ..It's not really important.

They are not favored at all. We all have free will to do what we want, and today's Jews are stealing a small peace of land, stealing is wrong, but they have free will, if God wants he could punish them right now, but He is just giving them respite.

It was narrated that Abu Moosa (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: Allaah gives respite to the wrongdoer until, when He seizes him, He does not let him go.” Then he recited (interpretation of the meaning):

“Such is the Seizure of your Lord when He seizes the (population of) towns while they are doing wrong. Verily, His Seizure is painful (and) severe”

[Hood 11:102]

I didn't say that the current Jews are not from the lineage of Sarah.

The Jews occupying Israel are insignificant and don't mean anything.

I listen to teaching and read them myself.

What drives us is that it's obligatory for us to spread the message.

I don't know if he was present.

I don't know who was present.

I don't know if all writers were Arabs.

I can look it up if it's that important.

Because they are heretics/deviants.

And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allâh is Most Merciful to you. (An-Nisa 4:29)

It was narrated from Thaabit ibn al-Dahhaak (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever kills himself with something in this world will be punished with it on the Day of Resurrection.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5700; Muslim, 110.

This is how man is like, they like to fabricate things, it's a funny world we live in.

A martyr is someone that got killed, not someone who killed himself.

No I don't think someone should unleash a suicide attack, I told you it's forbidden.

I can stop the fighting by not retaliating? You suggest I should not retaliate if someone is trying to steal my land, resources, and killing my people? I should just accept it and move on? Turn the other cheek?