Have you not read this thread? I and others have been following the scammer(s) for almost a month gathering pertinent information and supplying this to the FBI. As a result we have manged to shut down a website frequented by these people and finally have most of the domains located and confirmed with one individual. How the individual got possession of these domains is not my concern. My concern is to get the domains back with their rightful owners. In answer to your questions; You obviously don't know anything about the recent very high value xxxadult dot coms that have been stolen. Do you think that was through escrow?? Yes, I know who has these domains, that is all I need. If the FBI continue to act on the information they have been given then the law will be enforced. Seems to me you are saying that if you came into possession of stolen domains then you would either keep them or try to sell them back to the aggrieved owner!!! Remind me not to do business with you!
"How the individual got possession of these domains is not my concern. My concern is to get the domains back with their rightful owners." --> there would be many definitions of "rightful owners". If the domains have been sold several times, involving many people, it would be very difficult to determine the rightful owner, because everyone paid and thus became the "rightful owner"... I am ignorant about such xxxadult issue, how could that happen? Mind to provide a link? Well, if you KNOW the scammer, then it would be a different story. You can then trace the buy-sell-buy links, and everyone will get their money back. What I am saying is, IF you don't know the scammer, it would be very difficult to get your money back, and you cannot expect the innocent buyer to hand over the domains (because he won't be able to get his money back)... But if the scammer is known, it is possible to get the money back and the innocent buyer should do all steps necessary to resolve the issue.
This is the law: 3925. Receiving Stolen Property. (a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of theft if he intentionally receives, retains, or disposes of movable property of another knowing that it has been stolen, or believing that it has probably been stolen, unless the property is received, retained, or disposed with intent to restore it to the owner. (b) Definition.--As used in this section the word "receiving" means acquiring possession, control or title, or lending on the security of the property. Need I say more? The link for the stolen adult domains http://www.namepros.com/adult-domai...rning-following-domains-have-been-stolen.html
A person is guilty of theft if he intentionally receives, retains, or disposes of movable property of another knowing that it has been stolen, or believing that it has probably been stolen, unless the property is received, retained, or disposed with intent to restore it to the owner. So what if the buyer is innocent, i.e. has no idea of what's happening? Moreover, what if the domain has been sold several times through different buyers/sellers? I got "not allowed access" when I clicked that link.
I think you need to read it properly; Guilty of theft if he intentionally receives,(ok lets say he did not intentionally receive), retains,(he is certainly retaining the property),or disposes of movable property of another,(well he hasn't sold them yet), knowing that it has been stolen,(well he certainly knows they are stolen now), or believing that it has probably been stolen,(this is hard to say, however to buy 48+ domains including 12 LLL.coms for $1200 certainly seems like it's too good to be true)unless the property is received, retained, or disposed with intent to restore it to the owner.(Doesn't look like he wants to do that in a hurry!) what you don't seem to understand here is that you do not have to know or suspect the property is stolen when you take possession of it. Once you become aware that it is stolen then, you retain the property and do not return it to the owner you are guilty of the offence. I know, I have charged people with this offence many times.
I wish someone would tell this to GoDaddy. My two names that were stolen are GJRF.com and ZMUL.com I reported the WhoIs to GoDaddy as being invalid and they suspended the whois record on the domain names. I have reported them as stolen from me, MANY times and I have sent many many requests to GoDaddy for them to return the domain names to me and with my proper WhoIs info. They tell me to switch the info my-self from the controll panel, which I cannot do because they are not in my account. GoDaddy knows this. They told me that if the WhoIs is not updated and valid within a certain amount of time that they will sell the names on TDNAM and keep the profits for themselves. So they are selling stolen property, it really ticks me off. Basically a registrar could pry on these stolen domain names, informing the victims to file a invalid whois, knowing good and well that they will then be able to sell the names for themselves.. A bunch of BS that should be illegal!!!!!
That doesn't seem fair to me, but what do you mean by "you have charged people with this offence many times" ? Were you successful? If so, can't you charge GoDaddy for facilitating the thief? Anyway, this page says "To be convicted, the receiver must know the goods were stolen at the time he receives them and had the intent to aid the thief." I think this part of the law is open for interpretation.
I cannot understand why you think you know the law when you clearly do not. As for being successful with this type of charge, of course I was, however I am not prepared to discuss my business on open forum. Here is another definition for you to disect as you were not happy with the previous definition which I might add was direct from the statute. Possession of stolen goods From Wikipedia, Possession of stolen goods is a crime in which an individual has bought, been given, or acquired stolen goods some other way. Overview In the U.S. and most other countries, if the individual knew the goods were stolen then it is usually prosecuted as a misdemeanor or felony, depending on value of stolen goods. If an individual knows about themselves having possession of stolen goods from another state, then, according to numerous federal laws, it is prosecuted as a federal crime. If the individual didn't know the goods were stolen, then the goods are returned to the owner and the individual is not prosecuted. Though there are often exceptions, because it is not easy to prove or disprove simple knowledge. If the individual refuses to return the property then they commit the offence. Simple as that, the law is not open to interpretation on that matter I can assure you of that! Godaddy is a different situation. If the domains were removed from your account by access being gained by yourself or someone else using your password then they are not responsible. The story in this case is that all the domains were pushed by the domain owners to an account that they believed was that of a genuine buyer with excellent rep on this forum. Funds were deposited into paypal and then reversed after the push. Only then was it discovered that the scammer had hacked a members account on this forum in order to carry this out under the guise of being a trusted buyer of this forum.
we gave the domains...., he scammed us which is a bit different , the scammer used stolen property (paypal account(s) info) to pay for the domains which we transfered to his account. so the definitions are a bit different then the ones used in the last few posts in the thread
I understand that. The definition given is attributed to the person named in a previous post by me as Tampubolon, Bangun who is now in possession of most of the stolen domains. He readily admits that he has the domains but will not return them unless he is paid for them. That is where the definition of Possession of stolen goods comes into this.
I really don't see how my case is different. I sold the names to a reputable member whose accont was hacked. The payments were reveresed. I told GoDaddy what happend, no help. I reported to GoDaddy the invalid WhoIs, they suspended the names. Eventually they will take the names and sell them. GoDaddy will be in pocession of names that were stolen from me, just as Bangun has names stole from others. Stolen using the same method, by the same scammer. How is it different? Seems very similar to me, rather the same except that your Bangun is my GoDaddy.
Actually, your Wikipedia excerpt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_of_stolen_goods has an external link to this page http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/white_collar_crimes/crime_property.htm in which it is noted that To be convicted, the receiver must know the goods were stolen at the time he receives them and had the intent to aid the thief. Surely this is not the case with innocent buyers. (if the buyer is the scammer himself then it is a different story) I don't claim anything about knowing the law or not; I am just reading the supplied text. The theft (domain ownership change) happened at GoDaddy and we know the names are stolen. Based on these facts we can say that GoDaddy is "aiding the thief". How could you say GoDaddy is not responsible?
This is going to be the last post for me in this thread so you go ahead believe what you want, this is like arguing with a child that is not listening! The point is.....Once he becomes aware that they are stolen then he is guilty if he keeps them!!! Why you cannot get your head around this is beyond me!
I am just stating a source (linked from Wikipedia) which states exactly the reverse of what you said. I understand that such domain theft is a huge loss for the victim / the original owner, but I also believe that innocent buyers should also be protected. Ideally the original owner should get his domains back, and the buyers get their money back.
If only it were that easy! We have been tracking this guy for a month now and we have made little progress, right now the situation is even more difficult because another party is involved. The person that bought those stolen domains had to of known they were stolen. If you type in any of them in google an entire index of stolen domains appears as well as the email: , one used by the scammer.
Some people will do anything to make a buck…I can believe pretty much anything these days. Hope you get your problems solved!
I basically agree w/ what ur saying, but i can see the other edge of this debate as well since it goes both ways. I was scammed out of 20 solid LLLL's and fortunately got them back from "mehboob", but i know i've also spent a pretty penny on buying domains and if those came back as stolen when i've purchased them from what appear to be "legit" sellers (itrader, etc) than I would be out my money if i returned them to someone claiming to have had them "stolen". Its a shitty opperation both ways this asshole is running. The other thing is that apparently godaddy & paypal dont seem to stop this so in their mind they dont consider it to be "stolen", really is a shame all around.
The problem with all this mess is all the good guy's get screwed and the scammer get's away with it! The domains are now in the hands of an innocent buyer who himself has been scammed into purchasing them. The point is now he has the domains what can he do with them? Each of these domains has a huge amount of info posted on the internet indicating they are stolen, if he attempts to sell them who will buy? If he does sell them is he not also selling stolen goods? Knowing they are stolen yet still selling them to some unsuspecting buyer. Would anyone buy these domains if he told them they were "HOT"? Go look at this thread http://www.dnforum.com/f417/unresolved-namess-sale-thread-282204.html you may need acouple of hours to read it! You will see that anyone who had purchased or had possession of the stolen domains returned them without complaint to the owner, even though there was $XXX,XXX involved. Do you think the guy who is out $XXX,XXX should not have given the domains back unless he was compensated by the owner of those domains? It is not the original owners responsibility to reimburse the cost paid by another person to the thief for the return of his stolen domains otherwise we would all be buying stolen domains and holding them to ransome!