Scammed over 5 times via paypal

Discussion in 'PayPal' started by bigrollerdave, Mar 18, 2008.

  1. #1
    Okay I know what you're going to say scam me once shame on you scam me twice shame on me, but it's not like that. I owned a business which would send you a script after you send the paypal payment. 4 times people purchased the script and then turned around and less then 5 minutes later requested a refund from paypal. I provided all the stats of them downloading the script and everything they needed to solve the problem. I have over 300 verified payments. Every single time though paypal favored them and gave their money back. I was again recently scammed again pretty much the same story different product and boom what do you know paypal favors the scammer again. I am 100% convinced if you have digital goods and can't provide a shipping number the the scammer will win 100% of the time when it comes to paypal disputes. I'm not mad though that's business there will always be scammers online that's one downside to this job, but why does paypal favor them so much? I can't just stop using paypal it's really the only mass supported secure online payment method.

    P.S. My account is over 4 years old too and it's a verified business account.
     
    bigrollerdave, Mar 18, 2008 IP
  2. jestep

    jestep Prominent Member

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    #2
    Unfortunately with digital goods, and most other ecommerce goods, buyers have the upper hand when it comes to disputes. Especially in the case of scripts, if they don't like the code, they can dispute the charge. This is basically passed down from Visa and MasterCard chargeback policy where a person can dispute non-tangible or custom products because they aren't what they expected.
     
    jestep, Mar 18, 2008 IP
  3. 0lgi

    0lgi Notable Member

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    #3
    Im sorry Dave but those are some of the negative parts of doing business with PayPal. I would recommend you to change to Moneybookers or 2Checkout

    Good Luck

    Olgi
     
    0lgi, Mar 18, 2008 IP
  4. Pervert-For-Life

    Pervert-For-Life Banned

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    #4
    i been scammed more then 40 times at paypal :D so compair to me your lose is nothing... but now i learn that selling digital product through paypal is not a very good idea when 50% people love to get back there money after the purchase... and there is nothing you can do since you cant prove you have ship the product by postal service... however there are some ways to stop a reversal or refund for digital products and win a dispute... but sadly i dont know those ways.. all i know is there are peoples who can stop a reversal for digital product using some kind of tricks or photoshoping shipment proof or something like that... you know people will do anything to stop reversal... i use different ways to fight refund frauds...
     
    Pervert-For-Life, Mar 18, 2008 IP
  5. Isaak

    Isaak Guest

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    #5
    I suggest you go with MoneyBookers or Alertpay for your business, PayPal is proven to be very unreliable in this. Change now and make the decision which hundreds of thousands other merchants also did.
     
    Isaak, Mar 18, 2008 IP
  6. bigrollerdave

    bigrollerdave Well-Known Member

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    #6
    Yeah I know I should use other sites, but the way I see it is if 10 people pay and 1 is a scammer then I still made 9 deals. Say I use moneybookers and only make 5 deals but none are scammers I'm still short 4 deals. I'm not worried about the money really it's just the principle behind it. I had clear cut evidence, I had server logs, I had times of purchase time of download time of reported fraud. I had so much evidence to backup my story while all the buyer said was I never got the stuff and paypal believed him with no proof at all. And to top all that off paypal makes it almost impossible to actually communicate with anyone. Their dispute process is one of the hardest things to use. It's almost like they favor scammers in every aspect of their system.
     
    bigrollerdave, Mar 18, 2008 IP
  7. Flash Junky

    Flash Junky Well-Known Member

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    #7
    I know exactly how you feel. I once owned and operated a very good sized hosting company.

    All of my members were set up on monthly subscriptions. It seemed that every month there would be a number of people claiming credit card fraud so they would get a refund. It gets very frustrating. Because of the number of chargebacks i had to deal with I ended up selling the business.

    It would definately be nice if PayPal could figure out a way to be more fair...
     
    Flash Junky, Mar 18, 2008 IP
  8. gunners

    gunners Peon

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    #8
    better use plimus it increase you chances of payment methods like cc and paypal

    and there are no risk of getting limited
     
    gunners, Mar 18, 2008 IP
  9. PinkMisfit

    PinkMisfit Guest

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    #9
    Well it is kinda shady to do this but there are ways to prevent the reversals on paypal. If its a chargeback with them using their credit card a lot of times even with shipping proof they when.

    But one way to prevent it is put their scripts on a CD and ship it to them with signature confirmation. Only costs a couple bucks and then your protected. Only catch is their mailing address must be verified. It shows if you are covered by seller protection when shipping too them.


    Other than this yea try a different checkout. Paypal sucks.
     
    PinkMisfit, Mar 18, 2008 IP
  10. ghost.rider

    ghost.rider Active Member

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    #10
    Use licensing system is scripts , if they did a chargeback de-activate the license and the script no longer works ....
     
    ghost.rider, Mar 18, 2008 IP
  11. Flash Junky

    Flash Junky Well-Known Member

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    #11
    That's actually a great and simple idea!

    Have you noticed any drop in sales from not offering instant download though?

    I was also thinking about using PayLoads for digital delivery.

    Does anyone know if using them would also protect against PayPal refunds?
     
    Flash Junky, Mar 18, 2008 IP
  12. Neticule

    Neticule Well-Known Member

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    #12
    Like the other people here, I would recommend looking into a new payment processor, lots of good ones people already listed, take your pick :p
     
    Neticule, Mar 18, 2008 IP
  13. Pervert-For-Life

    Pervert-For-Life Banned

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    #13
    licensing isn't really do good... as they dont care whether there copies are deactivated or not.... i sell softwares and i have licensing trick... but still they keep refunding... so i over come this problem with my unique tricks to fight frauds.... because my transactions are bigger then $50 so i cant afford to lose money because of scammers and frauds... so i have find a different way to stop frauds.... and now i havent find any paypal frauds yet...:D and i can sleep in peace....:D
     
    Pervert-For-Life, Mar 19, 2008 IP
  14. Korrupt

    Korrupt Well-Known Member

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    #14
    hey there's the paypal API for developers...use that
    how do you think rapidshare activates accounts immediately and then just freezez them the minute you raise a dispute? no one can do it manually :D
    see here
    so add a field for the domain name they would like to run the script on and activate their licence as soon as they pay. later if they raise a dispute just deactivate their licence :D
    EDIT: don't forget to encrypt the script with ioncube though ;)
     
    Korrupt, Mar 19, 2008 IP
  15. ebp

    ebp Banned

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    #15
    Use e-junkie.com
     
    ebp, Mar 19, 2008 IP
  16. mira

    mira Peon

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    #16
    What about adding Terms and Conditions? Just make them agree that They have really seen the demo work and they are ready to purchase it. Payment once received will not be refunded. I am not sure but I would like to know that too. Will it work or not?
     
    mira, Mar 19, 2008 IP
  17. sheilasultani

    sheilasultani Peon

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    #17
    I sell viritiual products also and I use just automatically refund people, I wanted to keep everyone happy. This lasted for about 6 mos, then I started getting irritated by all the people who would buy a product recieve the link and then ask for a refund - once they get the refund they still have the link and can use it. For the first time, a couple weeks ago, I told someone NO - they filed a dispute, I said no again, they escalated the dispute and I got an email from paypal saying they didn't do anything with virtual products so the transaction was not reversed - so, I guess there is hope for the sellers out there.
     
    sheilasultani, Mar 19, 2008 IP
  18. nonyf

    nonyf Guest

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    #18
    I wanted to re-iterate the liscensing system tip to de-activate the script. It's VERY unfortunate that it works this way but I also have to think it's comforting if I was sold a bad script... I'd want PayPal to take my side. I guess the inverse is what I mean... It has happened with an eBook and I was able to dispute via Visa. It's just unfortunate when these protections are used for the wrong reasons. Best of luck to you.
     
    nonyf, Mar 19, 2008 IP