Sandbox? You mean River?

There is no sandbox.

Google have said that there is no such thing, and I believe them
There is no intentional 'sandbox effect'

But, as a scientist, I must observe experimental evidence.

What do my observations tell me?

Some new sites find it hard to get high in the SERPs
Some new sites get high in the SERPs in days

Some sites get high in the SERPs
Some sites do not get high in the SERPs

I think most are in agreement that the sand box effect is noticed most where there is a competitive market. Just because a term is not competitive, it is not saying that there is little traffic or searches. With a little research you can yield high search-low competition keywords related to your business that you can target - but this is an aside.

Imagine, if you will, that the competitiveness of your market is represented by a flowing river, or a torrent of white water rapids. A river that you're trying to swim upstream on!

It's going to be difficult to begin with. But with time you grow stronger, make friends and allies.

For the same effort you'll get further upstream in a slow moving river than you will on the rapids.

The water flowing in the river is your competition
The width of the valley is the width of your keyword targeting - in a wider valley, the same volume of water will flow slower.

So it's not a sandbox - it's a river!

 

dont agree with you: have a new site that in few days got well indexed till today, and has a lot (i mean, a lot) of competition. on the flipside, have another site (jan 2006) unique contente etc that is lost in SE's... and has no competition! so...

 

Doesn't that show you that there are other factors at work?
Tells me that lots of other things need addressing - only you'll know as it's your site

 

read the faq

show any examples of new sites ranking for anything desirable

 

It was after reading the faq and the amount of mis-information in it that prompted me to make this post.

Whoever wrote the faq was grossly mis-informed are really quite naive (or expected a low intellect audience)

Yes, too many to post here, and the site's aren't new any more!

 

yeah right, sure there is

 

1500 keywords
top 30 for 50% of said keywords within 30 days
top 10 for 10% of said keywords within same 30 days
that's 150 keyphrases in top 10 in 30 days.

How?

Keyword research!
step 1 - brainstorm keywords using apps such as adwords keyword suggestion tool
step 2 - filter by high search volume
step 3 - research keywords, in particular - level of SEO implemented by your competition.

In total i brainstormed 30,000 keywords but chose to only target 2500 (the last 1000 pages went up at a later date, when the sites had been established and were picked up within 3 days, same % rank distribution as above).

Explanation:
Think of a graph representing the classic normal distribution (bell shaped curve), then put a heavy negative skew on it (sorry, no pic to show). The axis are as follows: y-number of searches for term, x-term popularity (1 being the lowest number, highest rank).

Most people target the 20% of terms that they believe to be the 'best' keywords, with the most traffic. I target the remaining 80%. This gives me more traffic, for less work and have found that the traffic is much more qualified.

Advantages:

• There's no competition
• The traffic is equal to, or greater than, the more obvious, highly targeted terms.
• keywords are more tailored to user-research with VEO highlighting and conversion path optimisation.
• And, back on topic, No Sandbox!

 

the only terms you rank for in 30 days are terms that give like a visitor a day, or are you saying that you rank for good terms with 30 days, can you at least list how many searches a day they get, or rough estimate on what clicks would cost to buy for those terms

most things generating 1000s of pages ususally end up in the supplemental index within a month or so of being indexed, if not immediately

but if they don't hats off to you

you don't even seem to understand the definition, ranking for bunch of obscure terms that get like 20 searches a day and no one even buys adwords for , has nothing to do with the "sandbox"

Every day some noob comes here and says my site ranks for "insert some obscure ass term no one searches on" , and its only 2 weeks old, I beat the sandbox

essentially you appear to be doing the exact same thing, but using more words

 

These terms don't get 1 or 2 searches a day, they get upwards of hundreds, sometimes 1000s

They are only obscure in your eyes

In my eyes, and in the eyes of my users they are obviously finding what they are looking for. As I said, research has shown the traffic to be more qualified than the most obvious keywords.

Why is this?
because what i do and what i sell is not what a user searches for, they search for things related to what i do.

My favourite example (not an industry i'm close to) is 'Mortgages'. A highly competitive term, loads of people trying to target this for their MFA pages - but how many people who are ready to buy a mortgage online open up a SE and type in 'mortgages' - no one! So why target it?

FYI - I'm no noob. Have been in web dev for nearly 10 years, SEO for 4 years and am here trying to help and re-educate readers, as i want to help (almost out of the goodness of my heart, but that's too clichéd for my liking!).

The sand box is not a google phenomenon - it's webmasters failing to think 'outside the box'.

The google sandbox does not exist - hence it cannot have a definition.

The effect, termed 'Google Sandbox' is present because of the actions of the webmasters who experience it - not a filter imposed by the search engine

 

ok so you are saying that you can get sites to rank for terms that 100s if not 1000s of searches day in the google search engine, in 30 days of the websites launch?

In my exeperience , "mortgages" and "mortgage loan" are kick ass things to rank for

really?

yeah, you know a fews years ago you could pretty much just throw up a new domain and point a bunch of links at it and within 2-4 months it would rank in google, don't you?

I would definitely say they changed something on the search engine end

 

You can still throw up a site on a new domain, give it a few links and rank well within a month or two.

I'll agree that it's not what it used to be. I wouldn't say 'harder' just that more thought has to be put in to it.

We all know that there has been a lot of updates over the last few years - but most of them have been to get rid of spam, MFA sites and the like. Getting a MFA site in the top 10 for 'Mortgages' would not have a good ROI. You might get lucky, make $10000 in a week and then it's dead - as is whatever technique you used to get it up there. (That's experiance talking, lol!). You may also be unlucky and get no return at all!

 

Mr. North (if that is your real name) -- begone from this board go back to SEO, Google or KWs... the sandbox she is a mythical beast that you'd best not persu lest U become anothe Ahab - he he

 

Yes, I noticed this too. It's a most extraordinary coincidence - every single SERP I've ever examined has some sites that rank high and some sites that don't rank high.

 

You already know my name.... hehe hope you're well gyp

You know as well as I do that I'm trying to help dispel a myth. I'm just trying to use educational tactics.

Did wonder if you'd show up on this post!

 

Hey Chris… U know I am with you. Good ol Captain Ahab chasing his whale. That’s the mythical creature commonly referred to as ‘the sandbox’

It was my education in Black Hat that opened my eye’s on this one. Those guys couldn’t even spell sandbox…. It’s against everything they do..SPEEED.. gotta get in..rank..get the $$.. before it gets tanked..rinse and repeat.

Heck I should have my newest site indexed and ranking in a few weeks…. I lunched the site back on Sunday ( Jan 07) and already rank #36 for the term “SEO Handbook” (with quotations of course) http://www.google.com/search?q="seo...1&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-21,GGLG:en&start=30&sa=N

--- and that’s what? 6 days in? Completely white hat and I ain’t even trying really….

SO call it what U want… but OF COURSE it takes longer to rank for meaningful terms..that’s why we focus on ‘long tail’ stuff with young sites… If ranking was easy, I’d be out of a job.

So those that want to ‘sit around and wait’ to get ‘out’ of said mythical creature.. Go nuts.. I shall continue rankings sites as fast as is possible without dubious methods…

Don’t wait for your ship to come in – swim out and get it

 

SEO handbook has 465 results on Google.

The sandbox isn't going to be an issue at all. In fact I'm amazed you aren't at number 1. None of the other sites even have the keywords in the title.

 

But there's the proble with 'Believers' -- so now there ISN'T a sandbox? Come on M8 there either IS or ISN'T

Just because a target isn't competitive has nada to do with it. In research we have fact and fiction. It either is or isn't

Saying there is a SB on competitive terms is like saying a new brick and mortar is in a 'sandbox' because the owner didn't get rich in the 1st few months... So there is a B&M sandbox as well?

Fine, then you are making up terminolgy to suit a situation

Of FREAKING COURSE a new site won't rank well.... is it in a mysterious 'box' waiting to be let out? No.. I rank and get new sites indexed all the time.... so what is the BOX then?

How come BHatters can link spam away and get great rankings in short order on some of the most competitive terms out there? (outside of link maturity issues of course - we all have to suffer with that)

Like I said... U want to sit around twidlding your thumbs waiting to get out of a BOX.. go ahead.. the rest of us SEO folks will be happily getting past U....

Not to be cheeky Mad4.. but get an account at syndk8 -- read around for a few weeks..come back and tell me what U think. I am SERIOUS

 

most black hat mass content generation type sites are based on targeted thousands of obscure terms

I would say the supplemental index and dup content penalties are more likely going to give them problems then the "sandbox"

Mostly all you guys have done have shown you don't even really know the definition of the "sandbox" is

I don't think anyone has disputed that a new site can be indexed and ranked for obscure terms.

they don't , they don't get great rankings on new domains, that I know of , if you see a site that is less then a year old ranking for a term that gets over 100 searches day, please give and example, just the term not the site

 

The sandbox only exists for competitive terms. The term you pointed out wasn't competitive.

 

Love ya.. but like I said U can't get 'sort of pregnant' - there eiter is or there isn't

Like I said. of course U can't rank overnight for competitive terms.. Call it a sandbox or call it 'Life ain't that easy' - it's terminology...

BUt IF you are saying NO MATTER WHAT all sites targeting competitive terms rank at the same pace.. you don't have very many SEO clients then....

SO in the end.. call it what U will.. obviously one can't rannk overnight.. that's common sense.. not a sandbox

Anyways, I am outties.. only came in to bug North.. I don't really have these arguments any more... everyone can choose their own side of the fence on this one

(and folks.. VIAGRA is very competitive.. what do U think BHatters target???)

Thanks for the fun gang!