Same sex Marriage

I feel that marriage, in general, is baseless. However, casting that point aside, YOU may feel that something has no validity when it doesn't affect you personally - but what about everyone else to whom it does? At the end of the day, a collective voice will decide the verdict, in the absence of higher powers speaking loudly enough for EVERYONE to hear.

I don't really deal well with opinions on matters of FACT. And the simple fact is, there are people in the world who love people of the same sex. It doesn't matter if you agree with the concept. So logically, one has to assess the simple fact that this reality exists, and decide how best to deal with it. You can take any position you like, and they run the gambit. Everything from open acceptance, to mass murder. (I'm not condoning, just saying...) But, for you to bring God into this equation, is to ignore the fact that your eyes can see the gay couple, but there is no supreme being presenting themselves to weigh in on the matter. I'd like to believe in a prudent arbiter in all matters human, but I'm just not seeing it happen. And until I do, I will opt for treating other humans with dignity. That's something that is NOT baseless. Because God knows I've got my own faults, and I suspect that you probably do, too. (all of your righteousness, aside)

 

Let's not forget that you're mixing your sciences. This is Human Biology, NOT Physics. (it doesn't matter what one's opinion on people being "born" gay is - regardless, it is a real condition, whether physical, mental, whatever)

 

And you need to come to the reality that people do not agree with it, they don't have to agree with it and they don't have to want it legalized. Welcome to planet earth.

No one is saying they can't continue to live as human beings on this earth, but the definition of marriage does not need to be changed because you or "they" said so.

This "self entitlement" attitude, is rather sh*tty.

 

Time to step back, there. "Self-entitlement" for people who are not only ostracized by much of society, (for no good reason) but also denied the same legal standing? Really?

That's why I don't agree with marriage for anyone. If people are so selfish that they would deny people the basic tenants of humanity, why should they, in turn, be rewarded? Government involved in marriage rewards CERTAIN people. And it shouldn't do that. All contributing members of a society must be treated as equals. If they can't be, there is something wrong with certain provisions of law that make that so. And eventually, in a democratic society, these sorts of things will work themselves out.

At the very least, these are human beings, and deserve to be cared for. I'm not arguing in favor of "special" rights, or a "right to be heard". Just saying that if you can't treat other people like you want to be treated yourself, you'll eventually be voted off the island, when everyone gets tired of the same old shit.

Self-entitlement? Ha. If I were a gay person, I'd want to be seen, in the eyes of the law, as any other person. I'd want the same access to health care and recognition of a person who was a dependent. That's not self-entitlement. It's common sense.

Truth be told - I am willing to bet my last dollar, that every person here arguing AGAINST gay marriage, WOULD, in a heartbeat, support more "drastic" measures against gays and lesbians, if the public opinion allowed their true feelings to be aired. It's not as easy to speak one's mind these days, but I have a feeling that those same old sentiments are still percolating...

 

Perhaps these people would prefer sham marriages between a gay man and a lesbian woman. The couples could swap fake partners, and be friends, while claiming benefits off of one another.

Because there's no better way to retain the "sanctity" of marriage, than to make it a game of ends and means.

 

My point for saying this, is that people are segregated all over the country. Not just gays and lesbians.

AND, the "it does not affect you" so "get over it" attitude, simply does not sit well with most normal people against it.

Whoa. Just a tad extreme, don't ya think? I guess you also agree with them being able to sue churches that choose not to marry them?

 

Yes, I second that. To most people living a gay life, it's a real boon on their personal lives - especially when it comes to 2 key areas - family relationships and employment.

I have a number of homosexual people in my life that mean a lot to me. Personally, I am appalled at even the thought of gay sex - but I still see a person behind the sexual orientation. Because there is one...

No, it never sits well with people on the offensive. But not to worry - those generations will eventually die off, and be replaced with sensible and ethical people.

Don't deflect. That's your decoy. I'm not having it.

 

Absolutely right. In case I didn't make it clear before - the biggest problem with marriage, is married people making a mockery of it...

 

Same-sex activity has been observed in numerous species' on this planet.
It is a fact that Lions (for example) enjoy same-sex activity up to 80% of the time.
Homophobia only exists in one species - Humans.
Religion only exists in one species - Humans.
There is a direct observable correlation between religiously based bigotry and lower intelligence.
It's also scientifically proven through numerous studies (peer reviewed) that those who express bigotry towards gay people are more likely to have same-sex desires that they are attempting to bury than those who have no opinion or support same-sex relationships. This is proven through physiological responses and out of conscious control.
Marriage was not invented by Christians, Catholics or any other religious group.
No religion has a patent on marriage.
Marriage ceremonies were being conducted for centuries prior to the Christian and Catholic faiths.
The Pagan's of Europe are widely believed to have accepted same-sex relationships.
There is at least one recorded same-sex marriage in the historical Catholic faith, the male couple was praised and recognized as being married in the Church. This occurred in the 14th century.
Allowing gay people to marry has absolutely no bearing on anyone else, it affects others no more than a couple you never met getting a divorce.
No religious group is "required" under law to marry anyone, of any gender or any age, to suggest so is false.
Those against gay marriage right now are using exactly the same arguments as those used to argue against women being given the vote, against the rights of black people, against interracial marriage... the world did not end, society did not crumble, we are better as a society thanks to these examples of justice and social evolution.

Finally, gay marriage is becoming a reality while religious conviction is declining. Whatever your position on this, know that equality for all is coming whether you like it or not. If you are against gay marriage, you are on a losing side.

 

As will people like yourself that continue to ignore what has made us such a strong country.

No, it is not. But, good try.

 

What you think made us a strong country, was the fact that we were once a proud nation, with limited heritage. (one might say that ignorance is bliss) We are now a multi-cultural society, for better or worse, and the ideas that formed the (former) concensus won't work anymore. There are too many beans in the soup.

I'm sorry that you don't understand this.

 

You seem to be a victim to the common delusion that your specific brand of religion owns marriage. You are fundamentally wrong.
Marriage is a word meaning "union". No religious system owns this word and no religious group has the right to claim such.

 

"small minded" because they choose not to wed them? You can stand what you stand for but they can't, right? Amazing!

Despite what you think, marrying in a church is still pretty common.

 

It's called a difference of opinion.

Keep on with the insults though, it really helps your argument.

 

I wasn't insulting you. I don't need to; my arguments stand on their own. And even if they don't the majority of America appears to lean something closer to my position, than yours. (I'd prefer no government marriage, but if it's allowed, gays get it, too) Therefore, I will lay hold of a position that people of your persuasion have espoused for years. Namely, that "might makes right". If people fight hard enough, their will be done...