Russia cuts off natural gas to Ukraine

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by LogicFlux, Jan 2, 2009.

  1. #1
    LogicFlux, Jan 2, 2009 IP
  2. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #2
    It seems to be merely an economic issue. Why do we always have to look for political causes?
     
    cientificoloco, Jan 2, 2009 IP
  3. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #3
    Because the two are so inherently tied together. And energy is Russia's main leverage in exerting influence these days. Energy and politics seem to be one in the same in Russia.


    http://www.american.com/archive/2007/january-february-magazine-contents/russia2019s-oil-woes/
     
    LogicFlux, Jan 2, 2009 IP
  4. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #4
    There is nothing inherently wrong in that. Every country with large energetic resources will make energy a big part of their policies (and politics) as a means of increase their power. basically they want Ukraine to pay their bills. I don't infer that they are trying to piss off nato from that fact only.
     
    cientificoloco, Jan 2, 2009 IP
  5. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #5
    http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/01/02/russia.ukraine.gas.gazprom/

    I'm not going to automatically assume that either side is right or is being completely honest. I'm sure as hell not going to assume that because Russia says Ukraine owes them x amount that they really do. Energy is the only real card Russia has and they've been playing it pretty aggressively, unless it's all just coincidence, like the convenient charges against Yukos and its head, Mikhail Khodorkovsk, which lead to nationalization of Yukos, which produced 20% of Russia's oil.
     
    LogicFlux, Jan 2, 2009 IP
  6. N_F_S

    N_F_S Active Member

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    #6
    Excactly, I think LogicFlux missed the $2 billion dept, 2,1 to be exact. Maybe US could send them to Ukraine, LogicFlux? So they could pay for their bills?

    Ukraine can deny however they want, 2 billion is not a 100 bucks, when you can play these games of denying.

    Here you go:

    14:26 EU countries entitled to sue Ukraine - Gazprom chief (interfax.com)
     
    N_F_S, Jan 8, 2009 IP
  7. oo87

    oo87 Well-Known Member

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    #7
    Agreed with many above, this was not a political issue, it was anger over what the Russians have perceived as theft of their gas, which the Ukraine is saying was a valid removal because of Russia's refusal to support some kind of added costs. I don't think it has anything to do with Pro-Western ideology, or NATO support.
     
    oo87, Jan 8, 2009 IP
  8. N_F_S

    N_F_S Active Member

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    #8
    What can you expect from the western media? They suck to death political reasons to make the bad image of Russia once again :) I can remind you that the same situation already happened with Ukraine in 2006.
     
    N_F_S, Jan 8, 2009 IP
  9. oo87

    oo87 Well-Known Member

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    #9
    I don't see Western media glamorizing the Ukraine's position from that point of view, it alleges that they actually took the gas, and are now saying they were entitled to it, while still condemning the gas cut off, especially as Russia has been threatening Europe with that action for the last two winters.

    If Russia doesn't want a negative image abroad, they probably shouldn't try to use intimidation tactics like that prior to shutting off gas supplies. However, they didn't make the move before, so while some tensions may have been politically motivated, I doubt it is all a matter of politics.

    I do, however, find your position of the evil media demonizing Russia for doing something it has been threatening bully other nations for the last several years. What would be the reasoning behind that, I wonder?
     
    oo87, Jan 8, 2009 IP