Russia + America Relations

This is true.

 

What specifically is true in the above? Some of it? All of it?

 

Inquiring minds want to know

 

this is common for americans to accuse people of hate who speak out against the murder your "troops" commit...what method of posting should i adopt? a respectful one maybe? LOL

oh ok then LOL i dont support 9/11 but i support alquaida...

and i support the 9/11 plane hijackers but i dont support bin laden...the hijackers did also not get to pick where they were going to go and many of them were actually against the 9/11 attacks but decided to go anyway

(sarcasm)

supporting your troops is supporting our murder...

oh right its not the armys fault...its the evil evil guns fault...its not the guns fault either its the bullet that kills...wait even the bullet is innocent its the massive loss of blood that kills...so its your own fault if you die from a gunshot?

its just not the soldiers fault who flew over half the globe to shoot at you...

 

yawn...what "freedoms" were you talking about? oh right you cant explain so you try to paint america as something somebody cant understand...but your soldiers understand the 3rd world countries they attack SO MUCH...

what "freedoms" (i know you dont have a clue what you were rambling about)

 

Hired thug ?

even a McDonalds worker can earn more than U.S soldier..
Don't be so stupid, in America , 1200 a month won't buy you a shit.

 

The point that there would be some soldiers, but ALOT less than there is now, if there was no $$ or college involved for the soldiers.

 

Well, sure - but isn't this a non-issue? Soldiers, like other public personnel - like police personnel, firefighters, like all of us, actually - have personal needs, and part of how those needs are met is that they receive some measure of pay for doing what they do.

I know that when I was in, if memory serves me right, I made a gross starting $397 monthly. Basically, enough for me to buy some civilian clothes and roam San Diego when on liberty trying to convince beach girls I wasn't a cueball-headed, green sailor - then to come back to base and buy beer (where I could buy beer), licking my wounds as I was very much a cueball-headed, green sailor.

This issue has been pursued before, and my answer remains the same: when the pay is, in fact, effectively a poverty wage, no one is in this for the massive dough to be made by serving in the military - and that would include the specialized ratings, like doctors and lawyers, who make nothing compared to their civilian counterparts. Common sense should prevail on this.

 

I'm not the one making a big deal out of it, ATVkings point was that, nobody would be serving in Iraq "For their country" if there was no pay or college involved, they are serving for the dollar and for college entry, it is common sense as you said.

 

I understand, Thraxed. AtV has returned to this contention, which he has expressed before. I was puzzled by your statement, "this is true," because by my argument, it isn't true (that the principle driving force behind U.S. military service is the paycheck). One of the factors, to be sure, but when people receive in military service far less than they could hope to receive in comparable civilian occupations, one has to look elsewhere than money for explanations to the question, "why serve?"

 

From my own experience, with friends who have served and people i know, the money piles up while you are away serving and apparently "it will be a fun experience" (don't ask), so when they return they will have a good chunk of change in the bank, it is mostly people who are poor, from council estates or from a bad background who join the army to give themselves a chance for the future with the money they get and experience.

This is just my learning from people i have met, i have no doubt people would join the army without pay if their country was under threat, like being invaded, including me. But i can not see people wanting to go to Iraq or Afghanistan to "Defend their country" or "Serve their country".

 

Well, sure - but isn't this a non-issue?

yes its a non issue...the "enemy" has personal needs too but fights for free...

US army: volunteer + pay
"enemy": forced to fight + no pay

you just have to be the non-paid-forced-to-fight guy to understand whats wrong with well payed guns for hire from the other side of the world...when you make 0 the guy making 1200$ is well payed...when you have been under sanctions and US government bullshit for decades and have not had a decent meal in months then the 1200$ sounds almost unreal...now i know the US guys cant buy any bling bling with this but, nevertheless, it makes you look like hired thugs to us...get my point?...when you call yourself "army" we dont think so...

as for the rest of you who claim people join because theyre "patriots" its a ridiculous argument to make...sure you will find a few exceptions where some harvard guy joined the bombers or some athlete but this is, as you are all very aware, the exception and not the rule...you are insane if you think anybody buys this for one second...

i like how you conveniently all forget how kids a liured in by your recruiters promising them education and a future..."the war is over in iraq just sign the contract" LOL...you will try to make it look like the military is not the poor mans refuge and best chance of getting an education and job and that athletes and scholars are all leaving their multi million $ jobs to go to the dessert and kill for dyba...

if what you guys claim is true then it is very very sad that people pick a less payed profession in the military killing off 3rd world people instead of being normal and staying at home and making more $...i refuse to believe americans are like this im maybe a fool for believing in the goodness of mankind but i just dont see you guys as that evil...careless and arrogant maybe but not plain sadistic join the military evil...

 

1200$ is min salary this is with 0 expenses since you have free food and shelter in the army...when you are poor in the USA and have no money for college and your only prospect is mcdonalds then the 1200$ and the benefits of the army and possiblity of education seem very very attractive

 

A friend of the family's Grandson joined the marines after the war in Iraq started.
I don't know if he was planning on going to college but he is a smart kid from a middle-class family and there's no doubt he could have made more if he'd stayed at home and got a job. And he could have done it without people trying to kill him every day. This isn't an unusual type of story.

 

I dont know what is the rant between GRIM and atvking (too long to read), but Ill comment on this topic

Russia-US relations can be frozen anytime, no one will gain from it, nor Russia will lose much.

Europe-Russia relations is a different story, Europe needs Russia and vice versa. Thats why european countries blocked the american request to freeze relations between NATO and Russia after south ossetian conflict.

 

Nothing more than atvking hating America and our soldiers.

 

this is a pure case of americans hating small countries and dropping bombs, destroying their economies, robbing their futures, invading with storm troopers, installing puppet governments, "assimilating resistance is futile" and last but not least your cavalier approach to our lives and existence...i just type in my keyboard whos the hater eh?

my feelings about the US army are widely shared around the world...you guys are INSANE if you think anybody outside the USA admires/likes/wants you...

next time you brand me a hater please remember: its YOUR army on other peoples soil not the other way around...if you want respect/love/admiration at least think of a better reason than "national security" it makes you all look like a nation of paranoid cowards...

 

I do not 'hate' small countries, yet again 'can you comprehend' I am against most wars INCLUDING the Iraq war.

Yeah you're a big tough guy on your computer, able to rip on the men and women of the military, calling them not brave and other vile names.

Lots of people outside of the US do not feel the way you do.

You are a hater, it's loud and clear. Our military DOES NOT get to pick and choose where they go, how you can not comprehend that is simply amazing. Who said I wanted 'respect/love/admiration' all you do is make shit up in every one of your dreadful posts.

'national security' you keep droning on and on while making absolutely no sense.
Are you stating 'national security' for having an army, for invading Iraq, for what exactly? Not all wars we have gone into were for 'national security' nor were they stated to be. Of course we would need some form of 'military' for 'national security' do you have anything that makes even a small amount of sense?

 

you support people who invade small countries its the same thing...for example i dont support alquaida even though i do not agree with the politics of the USA...see the difference? i accept NO excuse for murder...ESPECIALLY from the people who murder the most=US amry

well they are not brave...a big bully needs no balls to bully a small person...this is the point i put forward to you...all your enemies have more balls and less weapons and bombs than you do...calling yourself "brave" is like a big muscular man beating up on an old lady and expecting an applause...the joke is you guys get the applause back home...

ive spent 15 years of my life living abroad in europe/asia/africa/latin america dont tell me about the world eh? who likes the US army? LOL the british army maybe?...get real you have no fans outside your country...prove me wrong LOL...

please answer this: following your logic, that the US army does not deserve my hate simply because they dont call the shots but are mindless tools, should i stop hating alquaida terrorists too because they dont get to pick what to blow up either and that my hate should focus only on bin laden?

"national secutiry" is not invading other countries...i could not care less if you massed up nukes until you could not drop a needle on your own territory...what ever makes you paranoids feel safe its nothing to me...but invading the 3rd world under pretenses of "national secutiry" and "preemptive strikes" is just insulting...none of these countries could do a crap to you even if they had nukes...nor would they want to get obliterated in a nuclear war with you...

 

Al Qaeda signs up for a totally different purpose than the US military, you can not with any logical thought try to compare the 2.

You are not brave, talking trash on a computer key board. Those in the US military ARE BRAVE they could be sent into a mission where they are out numbered by 50 to 1 and they will do it.

I see people on this very forum from outside of the US who support the US.

yet again Al Qaeda signs up for a totally different purpose than the US military, how about you use an argument that makes some sense for once?

Yet again I DO NOT SUPPORT Iraq, we also have been to wars for other reason than 'national security' seriously get your head out of your ass before you even try debating here.