Some new developments today on this racist issue. First, I owe ron paul supporters an apology. That's right, GTech is apologizing to *some* ron paul supporters regarding this story! Has hell froze over? Nope, read on! My apology is not to any of them here. I did, however, paint ALL ron paul supporters with a single brush by suggesting they would bury their heads, be dishonest, and completely turn a blind eye to all the evidence that turned up. This was not correct. While perusing the RP Forums last night, I realized that not *all* ron paul supporters are the same. Some have a backbone. Some use logic, common sense, and practice what they preach. Some, unlike those here, started questioning and putting the pieces together. Some, at risk of being "outcasts," demanded to know the truth, demanded to know the answers, because they have higher morals and values, then say some here, might have. So, to *those* ron paul supporters, I say "I tip my hat to you, for being reasonable." The hypocrisy (there's always some hypocrisy!) is, that when reports came out about the Surge in Iraq Working, and how violence was down, death tolls were down, some of these very people who have buried their heads in the sand, were the first one's to pounce on the success of the surge, by trying to falsely focus on ONE month's numbers, as opposed to many months of numbers. Tried to suggest it wasn't working, it was too early, that they "just wanted the whole picture," that they "just wanted the truth," that we needed more data to make a conclusive observation, yada, yada, yada. A dozen or more pages, filled with objection after objection about the success. But, when evidence is presented about their candidate, don't want to see the truth, don't want the facts, want to dismiss everything. The shocking part of this, on the ron paul campaign's efforts yesterday was, they issued a press release saying: Oops, probably should have paid closer attention, before releasing that statement, Ron As was later showed, after the statement was issued, Ron Paul very much did know what was going on, as LGF points out one of the documents where Ron Paul says: The correct response by a number of RP supporters on the forum was, WTF? The rest, from there, is history. A number of supporters proved they can think *outside* of the collective hive. As a few pointed out, to paraphrase, "we have family to account to, friends that know we support ron paul, and people we've helped convinced RP is who to vote for. We deserve to know the truth, our credibility is on the line." Kudos to those, who were capable of looking at the issue with the open mind that they so often demand of others to do. Kudos to those, who said "this is too much, we deserve answers, we deserve to know the truth." While some here demand proof, in the presence of overwhelming "proof" that is out there, and won't question "the official story" (how many times have we heard that from the same crowd?), several there rightly pointed out that the campaign screwed that up, because ron paul's SIGNATURE is on some of those newsletters, and (as I quoted above), he actually talks about his wife, children and grandchildren in one. In the end, it won't really matter. Two consecutive fifth places. As some also pointed out there, the polls do reflect where he's finishing, despite the percentage. The campaign was already doomed, because "the message" is just not popular. 3% national polling. NH was ron paul's to win. More independents, many libertarians, "live free or die," and the intensive amount of campaigning that took place there. As one supporter puts it, he learned at lot in NH. So, in summary, the "movement" is over, the campaign is over. It was doomed, without the truth about ron paul's racist letters coming out yesterday. Now that it's out, quite a few ron paul supporters said "enough is enough." Rightfully so. So many of the other ron paul supporters *demand* that others open their minds, look at the facts, question what they are told. Other's, seem to believe that is only applicable to others, but not themselves. End of story. RP is over. It never was, and it will never be again. One point I'll make here. I'd still like to think grim has some honor. I'm sure this is probably weighing on his mind. He did, after all, say at one time...that if it were ever proven true, he'd join me and walk away. For those that choose to do that, because you've looked in your soul and say "hey, you know, the idea was great, the movement was what we need, but I'm a better man that to be aligned with sort of crap," I won't "persecute you for walking away. It takes a lot of guts and big man to make a decision like that. Something I can respect. You may not care, you may not walk away, but if you do, I won't throw it in your face. Peace.
Gtech are you ever going to give up on 'the surge' you were owned on that long ago, I had the stance that OUR OWN MILITARY HAD. Gald to know you yet again know more than our brave men and women who are actually in Iraq do.
Oh so you still have no proof at all about what the white supramacist said, you'll take his word to trash a war veteran. Glad to know you take the word of a white power type to trash a war veteran, here I thought you liked and supported war veterans. Only to find out you don't, you must obviously support the white power types
The proof is documented. That you've buried your head and sold your soul to pretend it's not there, is no surprise. I didn't think you were man enough to hold yourself to the same standard that you held the success in Iraq too. You were owned on that, and to this day, it has proven you wrong. All that disappointment, all those "but, but, but I just want the truth and the full picture," but when it comes to your candidate, you pretend the evidence isn't even there! BTW, this incident had nothing to do with a white power leader. Just dishonest deflection of the evidence that came up, with ron paul's name, signature and personal comments. Not even a good attempt at deflection. Yep, I was very right about you. I didn't believe you were man enough to keep your word, or question anything, and you've gone to extraordinary lengths to prove me right.
Show me the proof that RP regularly met with this white power guy, that he invited him to his office to talk policy. I have not buried anything Gtech, if I see him actually being racist I'll admit it. Not just take his spin on things like you do with your boy Huck Nope Gtech I was not 'owned on it' one bit. Remember I posted an article of one of our commanders in Iraq who said almost the same thing I said, where do you think I had my position from on that? That's right you know more playing General in your pj's than our brave men and women who are actually in Iraq. You should call them up and tell them all to go home as you know it all. Ahh 'this incident' yet the 'proof' I have been asking about in another thread was about the white power meetings over lunch. You never did give that proof, I assumed that was what you were talking about here as well as you used almost an identical argument for proof in that case. I question it alright, this all looks pretty much the same as what has been posted before. Years and years of articles. Where is his membership in a white power group, where is he calling for the death and destruction of minorities, where is he making legislation that is anti jews, anti minorities and blatantly racist.? I'm more than willing to look it all over Gtech, so far I don't see any smoking gun at all.
Excerpt, be sure to read the rest of the link. The Kirchicking of Ron Paul http://gays-for-ron.blogspot.com/2008/01/kirchicking-of-ron-paul.html -------------- As mentioned by a link I posted earlier to this thread, Kirchick's piece hangs on some very poorly constructed character defamation arguments that do not hold up to basic scrutiny. The neo-confederacy charge is intellectually dishonest, because the conference he references wasn't about Southern (Civil War States) secession, but rather New England and Soviet state secession. As far as being a homophobe or catering to racist/white supremacist's, then he would need to explain his culturally diverse staff, his broad race appeal, his international appeal, his mostly gay delegate slate in Washington DC, and his friendships, partnerships and relationships with a number of prominent Jews. If you're going to be intellectually honest, you have to ask yourself, how a man who was very good friends with Murray Rothbard (Jew) and had him as an economic advisor in his 1988 Presidential campaign, and Burt Blumert, who runs LewRockwell.com and is a Jew, as well as his 1988 Campaign manager, and has written a book extolling the virtues of Ludwig Von Mises (another Jew), could possibly be a closet anti-semite, homophobe or racist. It's certainly hard to see how these relationships could help him pander to bigots. I mean, the whole notion that the Mises institute is some secret hate organization, while having a number of Jewish members or associates like Dr. Michael Edelstein Dr. Murray Sabrin Dr. Ronald Hamowy (Cato Institute) Dr. Walter E. Block Prof. Paul Gottfried and that group, as well as the man the Institute is founded upon could have any appeal to White Supremacists is ludicrous. Ron Paul: Peace, Prosperity, and Justice. Phase 3. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win.
Heh! I love watching you demand for evidence when it's all there! A new low, one I can truly say I'm amazed with "but, but, but "I" questioned it...by denying it exists and demanding over and over and over and by saying it's something it's not, and by suggesting it was the same old two articles, when it's much, much, much more, even with RP's own signatures!" Gotta love it!!!
Gtech it is far from evidence. Seriously you think it is only because you are wanting to find it so badly. His actual stances, everything I have read on it shows he is not racist. Anyone could go back through years of news letters and find some bad quotes. Yet the person trying to destroy Paul can not even say it was without a doubt him writing them. I mean give me a break, that is 'far from evidence' Yeah I still want evidence on the white power meetings, the ones you claim happend 'with no proof' taking a white power scum bags words to trash a war veteran with no proof.
I believe too, that like when any controversy comes up, someone rushed over real quick to create "gays for ron" to try and make it appear RP wasn't homophobic, as his newsletters show. I thought that was clever, except they have to realize that people are going to say "hey, wait a minute, there are virtually no posts here, and look at the date of the first post?" Well, maybe not *all* ron paul supporters would question that, but *some* would! Some have a backbone and hold themselves to the same standards that they hold others to
Proof has been posted. Even "real" ron paul supporters actually questioned it, "unlike" some here Denial, anyone?
You keep quoting an image that is simply a typed up happy holiday message, what is the point of this might I ask? How does this prove racism? This could be attached to anything, a card, a magazine, a news letter, it does not = him writing anything else simply because this is attached.
You are all wasting your time with Gtech. I recommend you ignore the lunacy and go do better more productive things with the time you are wasting trying to get through to him. (just wasted 10 sec. typing this)
That might be but I hate incorrect crap being tossed around as facts. If he can actually bring me something that shows without a doubt RP being a racist, especially in this day and age I will have no choice but to drop my support of him. This crap however only makes me support him more. Keep in mind times change, the guy is also how old? If he was 20 and wrote the articles 'that nobody can even prove he wrote' in this day and age it would be one thing. Being his age and when they were written needs to come into play. Not only that but most of what I read is not directly racist, it is fully questioning things, not in hate filled way, but in a statistical way. Again some races are more prone to certain diseases, can we not say that or is it 'racist' Some races are poorer than others, how on earth can we hope to correct that without bringing it up? That is how I view the articles quoted, is hitting the issues hard and not being a pussy about it. Not doing it to be racist, but put the facts and stats out there. They are two different things in my book. Everyone always bitches about having to worry about being so PC, yet they love to pick apart anything that is not PC. BTW 'the surge' I sure hope Gtech can give that a rest. http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=5023983&postcount=48 Read this, I was so sick of his crap I finally quoted one of our military saying pretty much identical to my stance. I got my stance from reading what our military had to say. For Gtech to try to rip me apart is also ripping apart our military as it's their words!
I love the RP forum. They even have an add for a tesla shield on the bottom. Tin foil anyone? Sorry guys, you got to admit that it doesn't look good for RP to have that kind of stuff. Anyways, I am seeing a few people on there that really want an answer on it, while others down play it, and others have a good point about how things may have been done. The site won't load the has the PDF, so I can't see the whole "letter" just the part GTech posted.
Of course not as no matter the truth behind it, it can be twisted and used as a weapon. Nothing wrong with wanting an answer. If someone does see it differently than I do, the more power to them. Wont load for me either.
nor does it look good that he got 5th place last night...but hey, surely the US will wake up and he will win....
I'm fairly certain he can't. Actually RP does bring it up, without bringing it up. Personal liberty. Don't see people as groups, see them as having different individual levels of access to social, civil and economic liberty. Socialism is supposed to pull people up, but what it really does, is tether them to the system, holding down their ascent higher than the ascribed level. For example, there are "housing projects", but that's certainly nowhere any of us want to live. There are food stamps. But no one wants to rely on those for the rest of their life. The path to rise, (upward mobility) is a very American notion. We're not born into classes, we move between them based upon our work, our character and our merits. Pretty sure you are referring to the Google Ads. Those are contextually driven. Frankly, believe what you want to believe. That's what we all choose to do in the end. I'm tired of defending a guy who is surrounded by Jews as friends and advisors, but is then called an anti-semite. I'm tired of defending him as a neo-confederate, when he talks at a conference about secession movements (northern, continental and global) not related to the Civil War. And I'm tired of defending a guy from racist charges when he's mentioned a black man as a possible running mate, and regularly gushes about Gandhi and MLK. He didn't write the newsletters is something I can believe. Did he know about them? No one knows. Maybe he did. Does he know who did write all of that? Possibly. If that's the case, his crime is badly misplaced loyalty. But these non-stop attacks on a bigotry that doesn't exist are tiring. For crissakes, he's the only candidate who wants to end the war on drugs, and free millions of minorities from prison for non-violent drug use, and is against the Death Penalty because he sees it applied unfairly against people with little economic means to defend themselves. His chances are about as good as the chance of seeing the FairTax without a total economic collapse.