Ron Paul vs Judy Giulianni on 9/11

I think some need to read

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

There are clearly several instances that talk about US foreign policy..

 

I'm flattered! Narcissism can be difficult to overcome. Have you ever heard of bi-polar disorder?

Good catch. I had not paid any attention to using "every poll" when I made the statement. Just knew I hadn't mentioned the others. I can accept this. It's a good catch. I don't always keep track of every word I say. "every" was a poor choice of denominators on my part to use. It doesn't discount anything else.

I actually do try very hard to keep things honest. Unlike you, if I'm wrong, I'll admit it, rather than spend ten pages arguing about how I wasn't wrong, even though I was, like some do. Ring a ding ding

I thought it was exceptionally non-biased of you to point out how guerilla was wrong too. That clearly demonstrates you are not the biased person you come off as at times. Or was that just my imagination?

If there are instances there, that blames America first, one would have no problem actually pointing them out. After all, you want to "keep it honest," right, grim?

 

Are you referring to straw polls in Wyoming? Can you provide a source for a legitimate poll in Wyoming?

I only find "staw poll" results for Wyoming:

http://www.jacksonholenews.com/article.php?art_id=2378

 

No one is blaming America. They are blaming a flawed foreign policy. Big difference, unless you feel that every single government policy is your will as an American. In which case, we should just scrap elections. That kind of blind devotion to the state is the stuff of fanatics.

I don't think he encapsulates RP supporters on Jews. I think he has his own views. Ron Paul supporters rarely agree with his entire platform, or with one another. The campaign isn't about dogma.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/7552

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/...ontrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1

Maybe these are not "Real Israelis".

Dondero didn't resign, he was fired. Then he started working for Rudy, and threatened to campaign against Ron Paul in his CD (TX-14).

In libertarian circles, Dondero is known as a bit of a joke.

Read this blog entry and Dondero's comments to get a better understanding of who this whack job, Giuliani shill is.

http://emergencybackupdog.blogspot.com/2007/03/libertarian-comedian-eric-dondero-makes.html

I wouldn't argue that Paul is being demolished. He's climbed from 2% to 8% and continues to trend upwards. And that is just with likely Republican voters, everyone knows that over 40% of NH voters are independent, where he is right up there with McCain. In another 2 months, Paul could easily be a top 2 or 3 candidate in the state, already sitting at 4th.

He's trending upwards, I would call that healing. Remember, Paul only has a 15% national profile, but polls between 5~8%. And that is going to continue to trend upward because outside of Iowa, he's the only candidate with upward momentum.

Dondero has been a Giuliani campaigner months before Paul decided to form an exploratory committee. It's not a lame excuse. Dondero's sole purpose since going on Benito's payroll has been to bash the Libertarian Party, Ron Paul and promote Rudy Giuliani as a Libertarian, which is kinda like claiming that Madonna is a virgin.

I don't want to go to Grim's level. I just don't want to put up with you posting factually inaccurate information, refusing to acknowledge rebuttals and then playing the victim card. Crying that you are being silenced, a member with 14,000 posts. Funny.

At the end of the day GTech, what happens in the primaries will determine which of us was more correct about the direction of the campaign. As far as Paul the man, I'll readily admit he is far from perfect, but his message is right on target.

And the people are starting to get tired of voting for personalities. A lot of them want to vote on issues.

 

This is a point where our opinions disagree then. I very much see it as "blaming America first." I simply could not believe how fast RP was, on the draw, to blame America for Pakistan's recent violence. This isn't about every single policy or blind devotion. If it were, I could simply say "ron paul" as a counter to blind devotion. It's about specific comments made by RP.

I can agree with this. It would make sense, considering the support groups: anti-semites, neo nazis, "troofers," etc. I'm sure no one policy of RP's attracts them all, but as individual groups, it's clear that some of RP's past stances attract these people for various reasons I've posted before.

Yes, I'm aware that there are a small "sect" of Israelis like this. I'm surprised you would flaunt them in a response about the Arab lobby though.

That's not what he stated. He resigned. I find myself asking for a source again. I believe there were some other remarks I asked for sources on as well, that have yet to be provided.

Hmm, a hit piece on a personal blog with people tearing a guy down? If this were not about RP, would you accept this as some sort of proof?

I'd say anyone holding in the 30s vs someone in single digits, is demolishing. I can understand why you wouldn't say that about your candidate though. But turn it around. If RP were holding in the 30s and Romney was in single digits, would it be fair to say some sort of word (demolishing, whipping, beating, etc) would be used?

I have no way to verify this. I've never seen RP holding anything in double digits. I believe once we see real polls (not straw polls), we can better determine who is, and who isn't on an upward trend. It's easy to suggest one's candidate IS, without source, but I've not found a lot of state level polls yet, except for those early states.

Again, I have no way of verifying this claim. As it stands, I'm presuming it's a hit piece against him to reduce the impact of his taking issue with his former boss regarding RPs lunacy in the debate. That...would seem a lot more logical/rational to me. Who wouldn't want to start a counter-smear campaign against a top level former aide, when they left because they had enough?

What you are claiming is something I've not done. I share your concern about posting factually inaccurate information. I've spent the last three to four years here countering those same things things myself. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people post inaccurate things about "our" country, assigning and giving unwarranted blame to it, accusing it with distorted and debunked numbers, making up fictitious claims about the POTUS, the first to jump on our troops when "allegations" come out, and out right lying with no regard for the truth at all. So trust me, I know exactly where you are coming from here

I've questioned and asked for sources to verify some rather unreasonable claims. The only thing remotely inaccurate was my poor choice in using the word "every". As I also pointed out, your numbers regarding Huckabee and Paul were inaccurate as well.

I'll acknowledge rebuttals when they accompany sound sources to verify the claims. I don't just blindly accept what RP supporters say, and with good reason.

As far as being a victim, I can only say you misunderstand my comments. I simply pointed out an observation I've seen with RP supporters and I believe it has merit.

I agree, it does come down to the primaries and they are coming upon us. Real polls (not straw polls or rigged online polls) are starting to emerge and tell the real story. Huckabee is taking off like wildfire! I plan to be just as positive about him, as you are with RP.

Some candidates have real issues and positions, some have never managed to get a single piece of meaningful legislation passed and some have managed to vote "no" during their limited time in office.

I believe when people see issues and candidate's proposals to those issues, they will make the right choice. Dismantling America is not an issue I believe most Americans want. The fringe right/left, perhaps.

 

As Guerilla said, whether you call what Ron Paul speaks "blaming America first", or any other title, his talk about blowback and unintended consequences from our expansionist/imperialist foreign policy as being a direct cause of Middle Eastern terrorism is also found in the 9/11 report. Call it whatever title you wish and believe whatever you wish, but please concede the fact that Ron Paul's words are completely consistent with the findings of the CIA and the 9/11 Commission.

I don't know enough about Dondero to comment, so I'll stay away from that.

All I know is that Ron Paul is not saying this alone, these same teachings are coming from all kinds of intelligence experts like Scheuer, and you've yet to defend the protect Israel philosophy as being better for America than what Scheuer suggests. Just because you don't agree with someone's reasons for believing something or their rationale, that doesn't necessarily make them wrong. All you have done is try and apply a blanket label of anti-Semites to anyone who dares to question AIPAC and our ongoing support of Israel, rather than debate the topic.

Come on GTech, you more than anyone else likes to toot your own horn about being a patriot and about thinking about America before all else. How does helping Israel so much, and bringing more hatred (cited straight from the damn terrorists' mouths) to our beloved nation than any other country aside from Israel itself, stay consistent with the idea of looking out for the US and our citizens? I'll be glad, along with guerilla and I'm sure others will, to debate that and its effect on our country's well-being (again, as cited in the 9/11 report as a contributing cause of 9/11), but don't apply blanket labels and resort to ad hominem attacks to dodge the issue and avoid discussion on the actual policy and instead defame the people behind it.

 

I've yet to see anyone, despite asking, to provide a source where the 9/11 Commission or CIA blamed America first (or whatever politically correct/incorrect term it's called these days). I've asked. Someone actually posted the link to the entire report, but nothing direct. Could they have said we could do things better? Sure. We don't need a 9/11 Commission report to tell us that terrorists were to blame for what happened.

I'm not sure how I concede something that no one seems capable of proving? Sorry, I just don't buy the "it's America's fault, always" blame game. I was raised differently than that.

Where are these "all kinds of intelligence experts?" Ones that are trying to sell books? Ones that were kicked out? Ones that have a grudge? Who are they? I fear it's easier to say things like this, then to actually source anything that would support these claims.

Have I suggested you are an anti-semite in this post? Have I suggested grim, USAST, or Guerilla are anti-semites? You're better than that, fletch.

Pop quiz:

Among RP's supporters, is it known that there are

1) anti-semites being drawn into RP's campaign?

2) neonazis being drawn into RP's campaign?

3) troofers being drawn into RP's campaign?

4) white supremacists being drawn into RP's campaign?

So is it fair to say, that these undesirable types are well within the campaign? If so, why is acknowledging it so bad? It's ok to bash America, but not ok to be aware of all the undesirable people flocking to RP's campaign? Isn't that a double standard unto itself? The best analogy I can come up with, fletch, is that I'm as passionate about my country as you are for RP. Just like you don't like people taking on RP, I don't like people tearing my country down.

Considering that RP has very limited support, single digits in every poll I've seen, if we took away these four groups of people, how much support do you believe RP would have then?

If undesirable groups like these make up small percentages of our country, 1-2 percent each, and RP is polling at best, 8% in the most generous of polls, if we take away these groups, what support would he have left? How much would RP have raised, November 5th, without these groups? After all, it was quite clear at least one of these groups had direct links to the contribution site.

I don't recall ever saying that America should only think about itself. To me, that would be unAmerican. I don't believe it's a all or none issue. I see that our Great Nation can not only take care of itself, but help others, as we have for hundreds of years. It's called allies. It's called helping others. When an earthquake it Iran, we sent aid. When Tsunami's hit, we sent aid. We provide aid to many others, because Americans (at least the one's I've always been around) value life and are raised (at least I was) to help others.

I completely reject the notion that we should cave into terrorist's demands. If you want to let terrorists dictate who we provide aid to, who we ally with, and what we do...and moreover, if that's what RP wants to do, I....I don't even know how to respond to such.

It's simply beyond belief that someone would say such a thing. Our forefathers dealt with these same terrorists in their time. They didn't make excuses or blame Israel, they didn't blame America first. They tried diplomacy, it didn't work, they noted their reasons...reasons that are still true today:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_ron_paul_campaign_and_its.html

Were they hating us back then and attacking us then, because of Israel? Why are they attacking us today? The reasons are the same.

I'm more than happy to do the same, if that's what you want. I'd suggest, before getting too deeply into it though, to look at our history with islamic terrorism. The very "Founders" that RP likes to invoke, dealt with this very same issue, long before Israel reclaimed it's rightful land that had been stolen from them.

RP likes to invoke or forefathers often, for selective arguments. Clearly, our forefathers dealt with the same issues of today and they didn't do it with isolationist policies, caving into terrorist demands, blaming Israel, and blaming America first for being attacked back then. Perhaps if RP had a better understanding of history and what our forefathers struggled with in "our" history, he wouldn't be advocating such ridiculous policies today.

 

Those are what makes 'grim' go to 'grim's' level

 

Again, it's about foreign policy. Neo-colonial foreign policy. It is not the traditional American foreign policy, and certainly wasn't up until WWII.

Like it or not, you pay taxes, and those taxes are given to military dictators like Saddam Hussein and Pervez Musharaff. Do you give your taxes to these men, or does someone else? Pakistan's violence has to do with the people rejecting martial law and rigged elections. Which may not have been the circumstance if we (you and I) did not knowingly endorse supporting a corrupt government.

Btw, I've mentioned several times that Paul is running on GWB's foreign policy. Here is some proof.

Ron Paul attracts people who do not want government circumventing their constitutional rights to say what they want, to live how they want, and to think what they want, as long as they do not hurt others. All of those groups have members or elements that support him. Just like Barry Goldwater Jr. supports him. Like Gun Rights groups support him. Like economists and educators support him. Like home schoolers support him. Like medical professionals support him. Like small business owners support him. The tent is large, and it should be. It's full of Americans.

Did you read both articles entirely?

He claimed to have resigned, Dr. Paul said he was fired, and every time Dondero is confronted with it, he runs away. He's a pathological liar GTech.

Use Dondero's own comments to the blog post as proof. He's a fake Libertarian, and political opportunist and a laughingstock in the Libertarian community. From his blog comments, you can see that he even acknowledges him as "Dumbdero". You have 1 million times the wits and integrity Dondero does.

Winning. We aren't winning (yet). Again, not many of the GOP candidates have support from independents. Paul and McCain do. That changes their outlook in a lot of states.

Paul just polled at 5% in FLA, up from 0% in Sept. And it's happening in a lot of states.

There was no counter smear campaign. Ron Paul doesn't run ads or promote that kind of stuff. He only came forth on the Dondero firing when confronted on it. It's not his style to respond to his accusers, he lets his positions stand separate from his personal biases. The way it should be.

Honestly, I am so in love with you, it's almost erotic.

You posted a more recent daily poll. The numbers are bound to fluctuate a point or two. No harm, no foul.

But you read both of my articles from Jewish authors, right?

The great thing about America is that you are entitled to your opinion. Whether you are a white supremacist, a war monger, or someone who disagrees with me, I respect that right.

That's good. Huckabee had his best fund raising day yet today. I think they raised over $200k. The guys on the Huck's Army website are pretty pumped up.

It was actually funny because Huck's guys have been beating the RP guy at fund raising for the last week, and today was their money bomb, and no once cared until RP HQ sent out a plea for supporters to not hold their money for the Boston Party Money Bomb, but to give ASAP for IA and NH ad buys (which have to be in before Dec 1 for the best rates). In the end, the Paulites raced the Huckabeans and last time I looked it was as close as $20k.

The bad news is, Huck's money is coming in a little too late. He's not on the ballot in a several of states, so his shot at the Presidency is looking a little grim. But I always thought he was making a run at the VP anyways, and he might have enough delegates at the RNC to be a deal maker for that.

What's overlooked by many is that polls and popular vote is not how the party conventions work. You need delegates to cast votes as proxies of the people, and delegates can be either bound or unbound to how they were sent to the convention. For example, in West Virginia, Huckabee and McCain have 6 committed delegates. Romney and Thompson have more than 40, and Paul has more than 30. You need a massive grassroots and/or huge money to actually be in it to win it. Paul has the former, and is working on the latter.

I'm beginning to wonder if you are a "statist" when you talk about dismantling America. Ron Paul wants to dismantle bureaucracies and return government over education, taxation, health and medicine to the states, as was intended in the Constitution. He wants to take the power away from the lobbyists and central economic planners, and return it to the people who actually compromise this country.

He wants to stop dumping our tax dollars into foreign economies and into the hands of foreign dictators. He wants us to stop subsidizing Israel AND Iraq. And Egypt. We actually contribute more aid to Israel's enemies than we do to Israel itself. I bet you didn't know that.

Now if you see dismantling the federal government behemoth as dismantling America, then perhaps you would more closely identify with Marx and Trotsky than Jefferson and Washington.

IMO, the state is not the country. The people and the rule of law are. This is a Constitutional Republic, not a Socialist Democracy. Or at least it started out that way.

 

Yet you wonder why some would attack you back, you are the queen of personal attacks.

BTW this time around I was not signed in, having someone on ignore does not work if you're not signed in.

Can you admit guerilla was not dishonest as you claimed?

Don't make me laugh Gtech, this is the first time I've ever noticed you actually fess up to being wrong when debating to me. Out of a long, long, long list of items you've been proven wrong on. I give you credit for finally once admitting it. I do admit when I'm wrong GTech, I however will not admit to being wrong when I am not. Such as the last little bitch fest you had, trying to claim I lied about deleting 'a' post. When in fact it was 'a' post since your last visit, your own words did you in as usual 'Ring a ding ding' or when you tried to call me on not sourcing Bush support, how did you put it. Being in a hole you couldn't dig yourself out of or something? In that case you chose to simply ignore being proven wrong 'yet again' and then respond to the ancient post, bringing in updated information 'after' the fact.


Lets look at these real quick to show just how 'honest' Gtech is.

Oh I 'dared'

The link above goes to

Instead of responding to the fact that I had sourced, making an appology, admitting he was wrong, nope he simply did not respond and instead responded to the old post twisting quotes he made AFTER my post into the argument. Totally making no sense what so ever, but I guess it was his way of 'trying' to win. I still am clueless as to what the point there was to tell you the truth..

Next..

The previous one he claimed I lied on was deleting 'a' post, when it couldn't be further from the truth. Gtech was trying his little dumb games as usual, 'toying' with me so he thought. I tried to get him to debate facts, but you know how much that scares him, he decided to go on rambling.

Anyways to the point, he claimed 'a couple of pounds' since his last visit.

Feel free to check the entire thread, all of my posts. This crap is simply childish Gtech, do you do this as you can't dispute facts? Or are you trully this moronic that you honestly believe you are correct? I for one would love to simply debate, even if we disagree, simply be honest FFS.

What's funny is I knew he was on, I knew I deleted 'a' post since his last visit. It was simply a post inbetween his rambling trying to get him to debate facts. Such great posts he made, such as.

The post in question was here....

This is what's so funny here, he was trying to 'mess with me' I knew what he was doing, instead of debating facts he was being an annoying putz, nothing more. I go on to admit deleting more posts, however factually it was 'a' post since his last visit. I was responding to his first post which you can clearly states 'a couple' since his last visit, nope it was 'a' post which he even admits, but even his own words to him is not the truth when it doesn't fit his agenda.

BTW the other 2 posts I know I deleted is the one I KNEW GTECH watched me delete, it was after the 'Meatball and spaghetti!' comment. I also noticed him post and delete as well BTW. The other post I deleted was responding to someone else about Gtechs lame posts, I decided none of these were worth having up there as Gtech obviously did not want to debate facts. So I deleted them, still the fact remains I deleted 'a' post since his last visit.

Now come on Gtech seriously, stop this childish shit.

Ahh and real quick, his other claim 'I fight against the surge working' He claims this over and over, that I would do anything to fight and say it's not working, anything against Bush. Yet in reality all I stated was exactly what our military stated, it was to early too tell, factors why it was too early to tell. You know those 'facts' but since it doesn't go with Gtechs agenda I of course must be 'against' it.

Is it possible to get back to facts and stay away from fiction?

How was he wrong? 1% on a poll? Statistically one could say twice the support Gtech, poll numbers also fluctuate. I'd hardly call that being incorrect or dishonest. I also 'as previously stated' only skimmed the posts.

I have called liberals, republicans, independents, or in your words 'RP Supporters' on items, unlike you Gtech who NEVER calls anyone on your normal side on anything. If I see crap, I will dispute it.

I sourced the link to the article, why don't you try reading for a change. Facts are not 'blaming America first' nobody ever said anything about 'blaming America first' other than you.

Hint, use the search option for foreign policy. It's not that difficult, even you do not need your hand held that tightly'

Is it possible to get on with honest discussions, or is that not possible?

 

Why are you so obsessed with a politician's individual supporters?

Is that how you pick your leader? Endorsements and all that crap mean what to you?

These are things you might think about. We're all individually picking our leader, and collectively supporting him, but you just sit back and try to decide on a leader based on how much dirt comes out oh him/her before election.

Here's an idea for you GTech: Go out and find somebody who isn't running for president, but stands for everything you believe in... then go convince him to run and start a grassroots movement , maybe even run yourself.

I think you will be much less stressed and disappointed when you lose. Maybe you'll also feel like you did something good to promote your values other then tearing people down online.

 

Well, that's certainly a "different" excuse

Did he claim half and was it in fact half? Isn't interesting how the standards differ?

When I am wrong, I have no problem with it. I'm not like you. I won't argue and twist it, when I'm wrong. I don't suffer from a personality disorder that demands I be right.

You've distorted everything so much, it's impossible to follow along any discussion you get involved with.

I agree, you make no sense what-so-ever here. Dealing with narcissists can be very demanding. They require lots of attention and want to be the center of attention, rather than discussing issues.

You deleted several posts. Then admitted you had actually deleted more. Such trivial things you make as issues. But narcissism prevails.

Yet you dig up old posts were you were incorrect, because you figure "hey, I got one on him, maybe I can get some more?" Ego? Narcissism?

You never debate. You simply attack. While others are holding a discussion, here you are, yet again, taking everything personal and doing EVERYTHING but debating. You have a choice. You make that choice. I'm not holding your hand and telling you not to debate. You have to be man enough to do that on your own.

You deleted multiple posts. You even admitted you did. Why you are crying about it, STILL, instead of debating THIS thread, is anyone's best guess. Seriously, narcissism is a bitch. I know you can't help it, but I'm trying to give you the opportunity.

LOL! It took you a few posts to catch on You didn't want me to prove my point, so went back and deleted posts because you knew I was right. Why you cannot take responsibility for YOUR actions was amazing to watch. And here you are, still arguing about it. Still blaming everyone but yourself for your actions. Such a shame...

You got owned, grim! It upset you, you threw a hissy fit, argued it and tried everything to prove you were right. Narcissism. I know it's tough to deal with.

I didn't start it. Everyone else was participating in a discussion here. Then here comes grim, needing to be the center of attention again, bringing up old shit while claiming I'm on ignore. I can't think of anything more narcissistic.

You waisted fifteen pages in a thread about success in Iraq, whining and crying about it. You eventually admitted it was about the administration. Why spend fifteen pages arguing against something, then pretend you were not? Narcissism?

We were doing fine until you showed up. I wish you would "really" put me on ignore and move along. But I understand the disorder you live with, so while others and I carry on civil discussions, I have to take time out from those and give you the attention you crave, because you need to be the center of attention.

Feel free to change this if you want, but from what I know about narcissists, you will continue to trash every thread you are in, side track every thing that is being discussed, just so that you can be the center of attention. Feel free to prove me wrong. You could discuss. But as proven, anyone that disagree with you, you lay into.

Did I not already cover this? I knew you wouldn't, but I thought it was worth a try. Thanks for proving my point on that.

You've probably convinced yourself of that too.

Lazy. Here's an entire report, it's in there somewhere. That you cannot source anything specific is fine with me. I knew no one would.

I prefer narcissists not to touch me. So you couldn't find it? Is that really a surprise? When you can't find something you want to defend others on, turn it around and blame the person asking for a source. It's everyone's fault but your own!

As long as you are not in the discussion, yes. I believe everyone here has demonstrated that. Sadly, though, you have to come in and derail every threat, create a drama queen situation that puts YOU at the center of attention, so that you can have the attention a narcissist craves and not be left out. Another option...you could stop with the sissy nervous breakdowns and actually discuss the issues. I suspect that hasn't crossed your mind though.

Here's my prediction: grim will not be able to participate in the debate he claims he wants to. Instead, having an intense desire to be the center of attention and needing his ego soothed, he will go on and create more drama surrounding himself, project and blame others for his own shortcomings and basically trash, yet another thread where people are actually having a discussion.

Sad...really sad.

It's a collective of supporters. I accept that *any* candidate will have *some* undesirables. When a particular candidate has an overwhelming number of supporters from groups that have similar objectives, it sends a signal. Some ignore that, others question why.

Not normally. However, if my candidate had overwhelming support from a number of undesirable groups, I'd question why and determine whether I wanted to continue supporting him/her.

We are individuals. Like minded individuals make up groups. And groups of undesirables raise questions. I take it you are RP supporter too?

Thank you. I've chosen my candidate. Who have you chosen?

Who do you believe I'm tearing down? Sort of reminds me of that observation I posted on page one in the thread. It's ok to bash America, bash Bush, but when people raise questions about their candidate, suddenly the tables have turned.

 

So yet again your own words Gtech where you say you knew of a post being deleted, so we are talking 'since' your last visit you fail to see.

A joke and nothing more.

You show you are unwilling to be honest, how very sad.

Seriously get a life. You are pathetic, chance after chance and all you do is lie.

Shameful at best.

---
hell you wont even post a link, you call it 'lazy' on others parts. The reason I have not quoted from the source is I do not 'that I know of' have the option to copy and paste from the source. But I see searching is too damn hard for you. I gave you the keywords and the link, but you still need that itty bitty hand held.

There is no excuse Gtech, you are on ignore. I can however look at your posts if I choose to. Makes it nice -not- being forced to see your mindless rambling posts.

 

Had that post pre-made, huh grim? No sooner than I hit reply, and your post is already there (look at the time stamp)

http://psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic.html

 

One last time Gtech, lets see if you can be honest for once.

No excuse Gtech, you are on ignore in my CP. I can choose to see your posts if I want to, I also see them if not logged in. That does not change anything, it is not an excuse, it is the truth. You know those facts you are fearful of.

#1 As already stated I skimmed, I did not read every single detail. Your glaring lie stood out as it was simply an outright lie that even a moron could see.
#2 You even admitted it was within the margin of error.

#3 Statistically it is almost 1/2
#4 Poll numbers do change
His slight error, even if it was not within the margin of error, even if polls do not change, even if I was not skimming does not come even close to your outright lie.

Yet again where did you get your degree to be a shrink? Funny how you twist to those same items every time you are proven wrong, you have not proven me wrong once Gtech. You on the other hand continue to get proven wrong, hell you even prove yourself wrong yet fail to admit to it.

So your big defense is to make wild accusations with nothing to back them up? Classic Gtech.

I actually love discussing the issue, you are the one who draws away from them with attacks such as 'popularity, narcissist, having it both ways' Gtech you do exactly what you claim others do. Even here you are drawing away from the fact that I showed you were wrong. You instead twist it to something else.

Do you honestly think those in DP are stupid enough to believe your crap?

Sigh Gtech read your post yet again, I deleted 'a' post since your last visit. Your post was talking about your last visit. Talk about twisting, you even admit to seeing the previous one deleted 'when you deleted one as well' during your last visit. This equals 'a' post since your last visit, you even admit to it, but you fail to admit you are wrong.

I dug up old posts, really now? You're not the one continuing to try to use these posts to say I lied? It is you bringing up these posts Gtech, over and over I might add in your own little demented form of debating.

I'm taking everything personal? Seriously Gtech look at your posts, how many times since I put you on ignore have you brought me up to try to draw me out. How many times have you used personal attacks? How many times do you twist and lie? I know you wont admit to it, I know everyone else can see it though..

BTW those who think I am wrong, lying here please come out and say it. I know I can be an asshole, I will admit to it I wont hold it against you.

You have got to be kidding me Gtech. #1 yet again, your post in that thread stated 'multiple since your last visit' your point was since your last visit. I deleted 'a' post since your last visit. You go on to admit you saw the one being deleted during your last visit, you admit it Gtech that it was 'a' post since your last visit. Jesus, seriously how can you be this dense!
Why do I bring it up? It is you who continues to try to claim I lied NOT ME bringing it up! I should just let you continue to lie about something that did not happen!? Give me a break!

Not at all Gtech, I knew what you were doing from the beginning. I was trying to get you back on track, trying to get you to argue the facts. You are the one who decided to post childish post after post.

Not at all Gtech, YOU got owned. Are you seriously this stupid? You stated since your last visit, you admit to seeing the one deleted DURING your last visit as you posted and deleted after it. If anyone got owned it was you, jesus Gtech nobody can be this dumb.

You proved me right, I just sat back and guided you to it

Sigh you are on ignore, others who quote you though show your posts. I was in this thread before you as well BTW I want to be the center of attention? Yet it's you who continues to bring my name up, I mean seriously Gtech you are delusional.

I noticed a glaring lie posted by you, a lie so outright noticable that you'd have to be blind not to see it. I showed the lie, that is all I did.

You on the other hand continued to try to attack using previous posts

, I only brought up the posts to prove you wrong.

I did no such thing Gtech, I argued the same point that our own Military stated. I sourced this in a different thread of which you know as I posted it directly to you. I was not whining, by using the facts as our military states is 'whining' I guess YOU don't support our troops. YOU know more than our brave men and women in Iraq.

I never admitted it was all about the administration, you like to make up your own facts, that's about the extent of that one.

Ahh you were doing just fine by invoking my name, doing just fine 'but then I caught you in a lie' Ok you'd rather beable to bash me without me fighting back, you'd rather not have someone catch you in lies.

No Gtech I would rather discuss the facts at hand, you are the one who brought my name up, the one who tried to claim I lie and twist, you Gtech not me. All I did was show you lying, and from there you tried to twist it into something else.

Yet again where did you get your degree to be a shrink?

You bring me up over and over yet 'I want to be the center of attention' wow that's some logic.

Already answered above Gtech, how lamely weak.

I have debated people on all sides of the fence Gtech, just because I disagree with the likes of you more than others does not mean I do not disagree with others. You on the other hand NEVER disagree with your little group. I myself do not have a 'group'

Sigh yet you call me lazy when I ask for a link, you wont even give me the link. I gave you the link, gave you the keywords to use. The file document from what i know does not allow copy paste.

Nope not at all, I gave you the link, the keyword to use. Read above 'can not copy paste'

You on the other hand call me and others too lazy when you are asked for a source, you also at times refuse to say that much. Such as your claim that RP's only supporters and troofers, neo natzi's, etc, etc No proof from Gtech, just mindless rambling.

Yet again, you got your degree where?
You brought me up Gtech, you must want me to be the 'center of attention'
Showing you lying is derailing, wow really?

So now we've got how many lame attacks by you,

'bi poplar, both ways, narcissist, popularity, center of attention' and many others.

You brought me up Gtech, you lied, all I did was call you on the lie. I have no need or want to be the 'center' of attention. Much of the time I enjoy reading posts from guerilla, earlpearl, northpoint, and others'

Now can we get back to the thread at hand Gtech?

I called on you a lie, simple as that. But instead of simply admitting it you continue 'before hand' to bring my name up, you also decided to try to lamely attack me while admitting you were wrong, and twisting it to not be an outright lie of which it was.

I have no want or need to continue these mindless arguments with you, when lies are put out there like you appear to love to make though I 9 times out of 10 will attack them.

Now enough is enough Gtech, please let us get back to honest discussions!

 

Not at all Gtech, I was on in the thread when you posted. I type fast, fast typing does not = a narcissist.

Where did you get your degree BTW to be a shrink?

Lets forget the fact that you are the one who continued to bring me up, in fact you brought me up before I responded to you at all.

Looks like you think I'm more important than you are leading on..

 

Grim, I'm giving you a choice:

1) Control your disorder and drama episodes, attacks, and egotistical outbursts and conduct yourself as a gentleman and actually discuss/debate for a change, or...

2) My ignore list. I'm flattered that you added me to yours, but still cannot resist interjecting yourself in every post to become the center of attention. That alone illustrates the severity of what you deal with. I sympathize with you, I know it's a tough disorder to live with. However, my ignore list will not be the same. You will be ignored and you will have to seek the attention you crave from someone else. I'm sure you will have no problem in finding others.

Which option works best for you?

 

Gtech practice what you preach

Where did you get your dergree to be a shrink again?

The center of attention, yet YOU bring me up over and over

 

Only if I get to be included in those "groups of undesirables".