http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAwvlDJgJbM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvirM1goFq4 (stock market traders cheering when Ron Paul speaks) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZsZ0_OLer4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNH5Xy8_0NM
geez, the fed has done a terrific job for virtually 30 years keeping inflation low. That has been an incredible boon to the American economy. It hasn't been the only factor. World wide competition has driven many consumer products lower. But low inflation has absolutely fueled the economy for decades. I don't get how you guys can criticize the long term effectiveness of the fed.
Low inflation? All they do is follow inflation with pumping more cash into the economy. So as prices rise, they continue to add more money to the mix so people can pay the higher prices. Price inflation and inflation of the money supply have a brother/sister relationship. Don't even get me started on the amoral fractional reserve banking system. The one that allows tax burdens from government overspending to erode the value of the money you have, defer the burden to future generations, while creating a new credit base for the lending elite to earn from. The Founders knew that Central Banking was a nightmare. It's the Rothschild fueled war debt that forced the King of England to levy heavy taxes on the colony which resulted in the Revolution.
Sorry about the thread-jack, Guerilla, but Tea Party '07 is live! Let's get some pledges and start sending it through the network. Let's make November 5th look like a joke in comparison. http://www.teaparty07.com/
Lew Rockwell was great on Anti-War radio the other day, said Bernanke should go around in a Devil suit.
I have a good amt of respect for the Ron Paul fans, but I don't know where this anti-fed.....the economic structure stuff comes from. The American economy has rocked since WWII. One interesting thing that has been changed somewhat is that post about 1980, the natural flow of recessions has abated somewhat. Between 1945 and about 1980 there were economic recessions of some level of seriousness about every 5 years in the states. Since about 1980 (a recessionary period there have been only serious recessionary periods; about 1989-1992 and about 2000/2001 to about 2003. The fed low inflation efforts along with a boom in world wide delivery of products and lower product costs/lower inflation have established a period of about 25-27 years with low interest rates that subsequently helped drive many elements of the economy. The current Fed chief, Bernanke inherited the fed policies from Greenspan and Voelker before him. He is seeing the structure of a recessionary period and warning of it. No one will actually know how severe it hits until the full effect of these bad real estate loans plays out over time. We will see. Meanwhile changing American and world wide economic impacts have an enormous unknown on future happenings. There is unprecedented American debt held by foreign holders that can change buying patterns of debt over time for a multitude of reasons. The amazing growth of world wide production of products at incredibly low labor rates have dramatically changed economic structures. Frankly, economic conditions are very complex, subject to many influences, and in a state of dramtic change. I'd seriously doubt a simplistic theoretical response is a clear picture of what to do....and challenging the Fed is challenging something that has worked well for the American economy for about a quarter of a century. Look it up.
Paul is an Austrian Economist, in the tradition of Mises, Rothbard and to a lesser extent, Milton Friedman's Chicago School. There is a Constitutional and historical underpinning to this position. There is also a Liberty aspect to sound money. Under a federal reserve, the government can debt spend at will through inflation, until the economy collapses. Under sound money, the government would be restrained to only what it can borrow and tax. For sure Americans are some of the best salesmen, scientists, innovators, entrepreneurs and productive workers in the world. And this has been a tremendous boon to the economy. But don't confuse inflationary higher wages and prices with economic growth. They are not synonymous. But how is inflation low if the cost of Milk has gone up? What about the cost of telephone service? Or the cost to buy a new car? How about the cost for housing, insurance and transportation? If the delivery of products has become more refined and productive, and lower product costs are in the market then why do consumer prices continue to rise? If you think it is limited to the mortgage crisis, you are sadly mistaken. The dollar is at an all time low on foreign exchange markets. Gold is reaching all time highs, as is oil. You are correct in that we do not know how bad it will be. It could be very bad if you follow what private investors are doing with their US dollar holdings. They are liquidating them and investing in commodities and foreign markets. The issue is not just Bernanke, it is a system that creates bills of credit, unbacked, and then creates new money from reserves with only fractional accountability, which floods the market with new money that is released by the financial institutions into the economy in the forum of loans. Loans that they gain interest from, but they do not actually have as reserves to lend from 100%. Absolutely, and that is what is causing the FED to lose it's control of the system. It was easier to manipulate the domestic economy when it was more isolated in the world. But today, the FED does influence Wall Street and to a lesser degree domestic price inflation, but it barely affects foreign markets, which have become our government's lender of first resort (with the FED as the lender of last resort). Manipulation of the interest rates only serve to bolster domestic confidence, not international. And as our foreign creditors lose faith in the dollar, the ability to import goods at a reasonable cost will soar, triggering hyper inflation. This economy has a massive trade deficit. I recommend you look up the history of the Continental Dollar, the Bank of England and the Founders own words on banks, and bankers. Yes, the economy is complex, and natural recessions occur. However, managed economies eventually unravel, and this has been borne out through history. Usually fiat money system collapse when the money is counterfeited, which is what the FED does when it conducts open market operations. Recommended reading would be the men I mentioned above, as well as Friedrich Hayek, Peter Schiff and George Stigler. Until you understand inflation, how it occurs and why, it is impossible to further the argument for or against the FED. But know this, inflation does occur, and it is occurring at a rate much higher than that reported by the government. This is propelled greatly by a fractional reserve banking system. http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/016722.html The interesting thing at this link is that even in recession, prices were relatively stable until the Bretton Woods agreement (1944-1971). Upon collapse of the Bretton Woods (our last tie to gold), inflation has been skyrocketing.
I'm suspicious of govt reporting on recent inflation rates. We will see if this is strongly investigated and readjusted. I lived and worked through heavy American inflation at the end of the 70's and early 80's. We have been inflation resistant since then. That is a long time. If you want to really feel inflation speak to people from Argentina whose govt and currency collapsed fairly recently and speak to people from nations who faced rapid hyper inflation. That is drastic, miserable, and fortunately has not hit America even at its most recent bad period back in the late 70's early 80's. This gold standard debate was debunked about a century or more ago in the United States. Cripes live through it. Economic conditions and impacts have changed many times over since then. The many impacts of internationalization impacting economies is continuing to evolve. Some ultra scary periods that would have disrupted world economies of some recent periods (what happened in SE asia and Russia in the late 1990's) did not wipe out world economies as was feared by some at that time. And I have had keen insights from insiders on commodities for about 20 years. Commodity prices rise and fall over time. Gold is high now....but was historically low for about a decade or longer--in fact gold company stocks were amongst the worst performers in the country for about a decade or slightly longer before its recent rise. Deep history's comments on finance dating back to the 1700's and into the 1800's are terrible sources to deal with current world economies. There are scary things out there. But the Fed argument is crazy old long ago disbunked theory that might sound simple and good but doesn't work anymore. US and world financial institutions are under intense pressure and will continue to see this from enormous levels of bad loans. The loan debacle will continue to play out over time. That is a serious potential problem. The changing world economic situation is also complex and potentially dangerous. There is an unprecedented amt of American govt debt held by foreign sources combined with a currently weakening American dollar and increasingly more potential for political reasons to tank the American debt. That is a potential problem. As to inflation. Yes, I agree it appears to be rising and seems to be understated by the govt. But as to specifics you referenced.; Communications costs like telephone specifically is so dramatically lower than in the 1980's and enormously less expensive than earlier. Costs of other items are best reflected by the percentage in which they hit the pocketbook. Low low interest rates have driven the cost of home ownership down. Crazy price increases in home values negate that impact. Various items need to be compared over time to reflect how they hit the consumers pocketbook....items like cost of cars, insurance, etc. Stuff that has gone through the roof? College education; that has risen at rediculous rates relative to inflation and income streams. That has been going on like that for several decades. Medical care costs have risen through the roof in America. Man that is a tough complex one. More recent cost rises on food are relatively new. We will see how that plays out. Ron Paul has a lot of valuable stuff to speak about. This issue is IMHO one where he is pretty much way off base. If you guys get far greater visibility and he gets questioned on these issues he will be skewered by the adult population.
You talk a lot about debunking, without proof. You haven't addressed what causes inflation. You're speaking in a lot of generalizations, and referencing the "mysteries" of a more complex global economy. The problem is, the details now, are only macro versions of what came before. The fundamentals of the market have not changed significantly. Earl, I respect you a lot as a poster here (you know that), but you are taking the lazy approach to this discussion, and I have better works these days to obsess over than providing you evidence, sources and other arguments when you refuse to engage them yourself. I assure you that Dr. Paul is a respected economist, from a school well known amongst American economists, and was endorsed by the Nobel Prize winning Milton Friedman as a Congressman. And I feel relatively certain, given what I know of how Friedman thought of Paul, that if he was alive, he would also endorse him for President. This notion of the "adult population" is the kind of rhetoric others here (who shall remain unnamed) throw around. Please post something, anything that shows you have invested some time into the origins and causes of inflation, and then we can continue the debate. And because I truly believe that you want to carry on and hopefully we can educate one another, here is some recommended reading. http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/topic.php?id=9 http://www.mises.org/books/paulmises.pdf http://www.mises.org/books/caseforgold.pdf
No, America reached its height just after World War 2. Ever since then, America has not won a single war, and the country has continued to decline. Americans today owe almost $1 trillion dollars in credit card debt, I don't know how that shows us to be a strong country. If anything, it shows us to be incredibly weak, and on the verge of collapse. Our currency is weak, this country's railroad system is primitive compared to Japan and Germany, which are already using maglev bullet trains. Our government is just about bankrupt, and the gap between the rich and the poor in America is the highest of any industrialized nation.
The catch is Tesla, people think that if they have more dollars, and never consider inflation, they think they are more wealthy. Our current prosperity is fueled by debt. The nation is in tremendous debt, and the citizenry carry a lot of debt. People no longer save up to buy something, they buy it now (instant prosperity) and then spend 2 or 5 or 10 years paying for it with a premium in interest. And the bill, as it always does, is coming due.
Does anyone find it interesting that all the people at DP that seem to despise Republicans are gung ho to vote for one.. Ah, Irony..
You're a bit off. A lot of DP supporters hate a number of people from both sides of the fence. I don't like the Bush administration, but I didn't care too much for the Clinton administration either. I find both sides are pretty shitty lately, but I don't see an issue with voting for somebody based solely on their party affiliation. Perhaps you should examine your votes...do you vote for a candidate, or for a party? I vote for a candidate. His name is Ron Paul.
So you find it interesting that a lot of politicians from both parties piss me off, so I'm voting for a politician that doesn't piss me off and whose stances I support? What point are you trying to make here exactly?