If I am shalow minded or my religion allows me to talk negatively to people of other religions (negatively = the way this thread became), I would have been glad to be part of the current conversation But I can't. So, back to topic: If anyone has questions about how correct his understanding of Islam is and wheather there is a relationship between the actions of Muslims and Muslim pretenders, he is most appreciated.
Good question 1. Unfortunately, and as a result of long, dark years of foreigners ruling the Arab countries, people do not care to see how others see them. This is not the first time for someone to talk in a bad way about Islam, Muslims or Arabs. But this might be the first time for Muslims and Arabs to stand against such behavior. (off topic: this new response lead to misbehavior from them of course because it might be the first time they act for Islam indeed) So, it certainly took Arabs and Muslims time to hear the news and know what to do against it. 2. It was not said in TV that a Danish paper published cartoons of the Prophet PBUH, but it spread between people man to man. off topic again: Am I personally against the cartoons? Of course. Yes there is freedom of speech and there are restrictions (as per the ASIL article I quoted earlier). But does this mean that I agree to the death threats and burning the buildings, etc.? No. This is not Islam.
I do not feel that I have a responsibility to respect a bunch of murderers who shamelessly attack women and children. Indeed, I feel that I have a responsibility to completely renounce many deeds, from the attack on the Munich Olympics to the court-ordered rape of women.
Lordo wrote: It's time for Muslims around the world to stand up against the actions of terrorists and murderers and others that preaches hate and violence in the name of Islam!! Why isn't this happening on a global scale?
We should not force them, do you want them to think: well we show some offence toward wahabbites so the west will be happy.
I don't think this will be the case. We can not force them, making suggestions is not forcing someone to make certain actions to be heard. If Muslims would stand up against this it would only be good to show the ones with their hanous crimes that it will not have any effect on the majority that ''they'' think to achieve. (The achievement would be to be acknowledged and supported for their actions to gain more followers of their violent actions) Only thing they will achieve is resentment from the majority of the Muslim community and therefor there will be less interest from mindless Muslims that are easily manipulated into violence because of the majority influencing them in a more positive way instead of resorting to violence that doesn't achieve anything... only misunderstanding and resentment from the west. It's not about keeping or making the west happy... it's about showing the west publicly and openly their aversion against this sort of violence. Something that i have actually not been able to detect in the media apart from an interview here and now with a individual on a talkshow or something stating that they do not condone this sort of actions and saying that it is not the way of the true Muslim. It would make me feel a little bit more comfortable that a large portion of the Muslim community is against these type of actions (Actions that Will Spencer has described earlier on) by showing up in the same numbers as with the cartoon protests and hopefully with even more numbers. But i don't see this happening unfortunately...what does this tell? A: Does the majority of the Muslim community condone it? B: Or are they afraid to stand up and speak their minds because of fear for retaliation from radical Muslims with twisted disturbed concepts about Islam? As long as there are not any protests being made against the type of violent acts Will has described they are silently supporting the violence in the name of Islam. And some Muslims that stay silent may truly support these non-rational acts and some may not but are afraid to speak out and for doing so unfortunately support it as well by staying silent in their community or in whatever form they would have the chance to speak up but neglect to do so.
That opportunity existed last year in May, here in the US. The first ever Muslim March Against Terrorism. As expected, the turnout was excruciatingly small (about 50 people) and most of the US based islamic organizations would not support it. http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/2005/05/march_against_t_1.html There wasn't much coverage in the media. There really wasn't much to cover. A few dozen people gathered and mainstream islamic groups like CAIR refused to participate. What a powerful message.
i think you can't call that a reliigion... it closer to being a cult... hehehe Religion is having a sense of direction in life, peace of mind, etc... most is for a good cause... i really hate to give examples about religions that practice bad practices... like people at the early times... like forcing people to convert by torturing or killing... to cut it short... people living in a religion somewhat feels that they are part of a "LOVING FAMILY"... i stressed the words loving family because some families are not so good... i think we should pray for others not just for our own religion but also for other to save a sense of direction in their lives and enjoy life...
i believe this concept that they are being taught is just for the happiness and fulfillment of few muslims... most likely they are being brainwashed but their crazy leaders like suicide bombers do... if there could only be just one leader with strong charisma and a good role model should bring down these crazy leaders... hehehe
Dont you see, we dont care about understanding your religion. We dont want to understand your religion nor should we have to. We (the western pigs) have moved out of the 12th century already, we arent trying to go back. Your religion is evil and barbaric. What is there to understand? Your religion wants you to kill the Jews and the west. As pointed out 738262483328 times before, muslims cheer and celebrate when the west is attacked. There are no protests when innocent people are killed. Only protests for things like cartoons. The muslims do not want peace, they are like hitler, but without the power and force. They want an Islamic world only. Show me some proof thats not true. Show me where muslims stand against terrorism, show me protests against terrorism. Show me where muslims denounce terrorism. You cant, because there is no such thing. They dont stand against it, they promote it. GTFO of here with your muslim sob stories. Stop trying to kill us. Or keep poking at us, eventually there will be hell to pay if this keeps up. You dont think the west should be in Iraq? Keep fucking blowing shit up and acting like a bunch of assholes and the west will give you something to cry about.
Isn't it true that the majority of Islamic nations consider Egypt's form of Islam a "watered down version" of it? Isn't it true that especially since President Anwat Saddat you guys have moved into the 20th century and are looked down on by those who still follow Islam by the book. No offense, but I don't think you guys are the "real Muslims" as Muhammed intended things to be. If I ask you something, you will not speak for the majority, which brings us back to square one. Unless you guys manage to bring your message to the rest of the Islamic world and convert some more sense into them, the world will not be at peace and Islam will not be looked at the way you guys would like it to.
My last post is still valid. If anyone has wonders or questions about the real Islam, I am ready to answer. Unless the thread continues calmly and rationally as it stared, I will not reply to posts. I believe this means if you don't see a point of what I am doing or you talk about something that I explained before, then don't waste your time
So Lordo, you don't support murdering the artists who created the cartoons, but you do support murdering those who leave Islam and then make statements about Islam with which you disagree. What is one of the artists who created those cartoons was an ex-Muslim? Would is then be OK to murder him?
Now this is a question. Your underlined text is not what I said. Check your signature and you will see: A Muslim who works against Islam (which means he left Islam by trying to cause harm to it). ... Such behavior is not leaving a religion. It is in fact the great betrayal and disloyalty which deserves death If you spend a minute to understand it, you will see what I mean. If a Muslim wants to leave Islam, it is OK for him to leave Islam. Islam does not say anything about killing him. If a Muslim tries to harm Islam (while he pretends he is Muslim - this way he is automatically not a Muslim and that is why I said leaving Islam by trying to harm it), then he is killed because this is great betrayal (he is still Muslim by name only but he is not). Thus, if one of the cartoonist is an ex Muslim, this makes no difference. It is the same as if he is not. BUT this doesn't mean that these cartoonists didn't commit a crime (I am not talking about killing them of course) according to ASIL's article I quoted earlier.
So, is creating a cartoon which makes fun of Mohammed "working against Islam" or not? What, in your mind, counts as "working against Islam?" What does it take to get you to strap on an explosive belt and wander into a coffee shop? And, speaking of these cartoonist, what possible crime do you imagine that they have committed?
If the cartoons are not working against Islam, then what is the fuzz about? Which brings me back to my original opinion that yours don't reflect the views of the Muslim world. Generally speaking.