There is a big differance from, "So why not lobotomise the psycopaths who are in jail for violent crimes to try to modify their behaviour?" To now where you say, "Psychopathic prisoners doing 'life' or very lengthy sentences could have elective psychosurgery to modify their psycopathy" That is very different but I still don't really agree with you because stereotactic psychosurgery has been used only for aggressive behavior, OCD and depression. The definition of psychopathy is basically the inability to feel empathy and having no conscience. Slicing up someones brain will not solve that problem. In addition on your statement: "I fail to see why on earth you are personally concerned with whether these people have a change of personality - isn't that the idea? That their personalities change to such an extent that they become 'rehabilitated'? Surely their personalities are so warped and distorted to have led them to commit their crimes and inflict the damage they have wrought within society that they must be radically altered?" ***I never said I was concerned about them merely having "a change of personality." I said, "Just my opinion of course but I think a lobotomy is one of the cruelest forms of execution. The most important part of a person is there brain, if you destroy that then there is no reason for the body to go on. So are you saying we should give them a lobotomy and then release them back into society where they will be unable to support themselves? Or should they just get a lobotomy and stay in prison as they would have done without a lobotomy?" "So why not operate on the most destructive element in society - the criminal psychopath?" ****Because it won't give them empathy or a conscience
You're not making much sense. On the one hand you support execution and the death penalty and are also concerned that brain surgery will negatively impact a criminal psychopath's personality! The same personality that resulted in them carrying out some heinous violent murder? Huh? And ... what qualifies you to say psychosurgery will not give a psychopath some empathy or conscience? How do you know? It's currently being used to deal with aggressive behaviour. Viola! Dangerous, aggressive psychopath => brain surgery => docile non-violent psychopath => 50% drop in violent crime in society. Perfect!
You wrote:"You're not making much sense. On the one hand you support execution and the death penalty and are also concerned that brain surgery will negatively impact a criminal psychopath's personality! The same personality that resulted in them carrying out some heinous violent murder?" ***Exactly where did I post that I was worried about there personality? First you were suggesting a lobotomy and my reply was that I considered that to be the cruelest form of execution and they would have to stay in prison anyway because they would not be able function enough to live on the outside. You wrote, "And ... what qualifies you to say psychosurgery will not give a psychopath some empathy or conscience? How do you know? It's currently being used to deal with aggressive behaviour." ***Do you even read your own links you post as evidence? On this one it said they have only tested this particular procedure on 2 people with aggressive behavior since 1993. Not on psychopathy but on aggressive behavior. I guess that just qualifies as an overwhelming success story for you to suggest brain surgery for the treatment of any psychiatric disorder that exists. How do I know slicing up someones brain won't give them empathy and a conscience? If you are cutting pieces off the brain you are only taking away what they have, not adding to it. You wrote, "Viola! Dangerous, aggressive psychopath => brain surgery => docile non-violent psychopath => 50% drop in violent crime in society. Perfect!" ***I guess your idea was abandoned in the 70's for being such a smashing success? "For, despite decades of effort, researchers have yet to find a proven, reliable way to cure a psychopath. In the 1950s, researchers believed that violent psychopaths could be treated by removing parts of their brain. Although lobotomies and amygdalotomies did seem to make the psychopaths less violent, the research was ambiguous and never followed up. By the 1970s, it had been abandoned. Electro-convulsive therapy (ECT), where the brains of psychopaths are given jolts of electricity,drugs, psycho-analysis, even wrapping in cold , wet sheets have all been tried. In every case, the results have been, at best, inconclusive. Unlike schizophrenics or depressives, they do not seem to benefit from being treated as if there are problems with their mental "hardware". Unlike those suffering from phobias, no amount of counselling seems to change them, either." http://www.robertmatthews.org/psychopath_articles.html
You really need to use the 'Quote' button, Rebecca. Much easier to read. Anyhoo, the 1970's were a long way from today. MRI's and Cat scans as well as extremely precise surgery are avialable today whereas they weren't available in the 1970's. At that point in time lobotomies in the sense that we understand them with hindsight, were performed for the flimsiest of reasons and were seen as a type of miracle treatment for all sorts of conditions. With today's technology and advances in non-invasive brain surgery, I would suggest it be considered to deal with the tiny minority who are criminally psychopathic - they are estimated to commit half of the violent crimes in society and they are thought to compose 20% - 25% of the prison population. The title to this thread is "Reprogramming or brainwashing of criminals" - so in the spirit of the thread, I have offered a solution I personally believe should be tried. Imagine if you could eliminate 50% of violent crime and drop the prison population by 20% - 25% by using a non invasive psychosurgery. It wouldn't happen overnight but it may offer a way forwards with the ever increasing prison populations and incidents of violent crime.
Just thinking the same thing. Who would you rather meet in a dark alley?: A rehabilitated psychopathic ex-con A lobotimised ex-psychopathic ex-con
I did use the quote button, I guess I should have used the multi-quote button Sorry for the difficult reading. I guess we will never agree on this one point. Partly, because experts in the mental health do not recommend brain surgery on psychopaths or feel that it would be beneficial for treatment. So I guess I am just not understanding your percentages about reducing crime by 50%...But I certainly don't know everything about this, so maybe you are right. Personally though, I would much prefer standing in Grafsteins firing line than submit to a lobotomy Thanks.
Well if they can brainwash republicans with TV and nationalisim im sure they can strap this guy down and give him the prison version of fox news.