1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

Refunding Submission Fees? What?!??

Discussion in 'Directories' started by CReed, Aug 24, 2007.

  1. Fastian

    Fastian Peon

    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    235
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #21
    First of all CReed, I am really glad you started this thread. I was thinking to do a similar one myself from past few days.

    Let’s just be honest with ourselves for a moment and see what is going on.

    You are right on spot that “many” directories just added the statement “Review Fee” on their submit page and everything is just the same. “Look at the site for a min and decide accept/reject, and the review is done”

    Now, if you are really going to “review” a website, it does take time. Sometimes, it’s easy to decide but sometime you have to go in-depth to decide what to do with that listing. So, sending a complete refund for rejected listing is going to be a problem.

    You also have to keep in mind how the market will behave to your “non-refund” decision.
    SEMrush
    Believe it or not, it’s still about the PR. Many of us say/claim that PR is not important for us and the only important thing is “Quality directory”. And then, just then we take PR is #1 factor to determine “Quality”. Traffic/backlinks are there as well but most likely, people spend 1 second to see the green bar in their browser than to spend few seconds to judge if they are going to get any benefit. You can’t deny the fact that with high PR you are most likely to get more submissions even if you are doing so called review. And there, I also blame “submitters” who consider that getting listed on PR directory/category is the only important thing in this world. May be someday, things will change for all of us. (Ok, I can afford some red on that last comment, but please be nice and leave your name on it)

    The end result is, if a new guy who might be doing a lot at backend ended up doing a “non-refund” policy, he is going to be busted and might become the victim of QBC list.

    At this point, I will beg to differ. If it’s the “review few” you are charging, then it should be a reasonable fee. No one will like to spend $100 just to get a review. And what exactly that “Review” is??? Deciding what get listed and what not???

    “No refund” is most likely to turn submitters away. I will prefer deducting a reasonable review few.

    In case someone hasn’t noticed, I have implemented that on my directory. So sending a complete or partial refund is solely on the site submitted for review.

    That’s an important point and a better way to see towards this topic. “What exactly submitters have in their mind when they are submitting”?? How would they know the outcome of their review??

    PS. Wherever I have used the word "you", it meant in general and was not targeted towards anyone.
     
    Fastian, Aug 25, 2007 IP
    Mr_Kumar and CReed like this.
    SEMrush
  2. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,767
    Likes Received:
    958
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #22
    In a nutshell i am selling you a listing in my directory (omg ive just said it out in the open;)) but in all honesty i know and you know thats what im doing, and so does google.

    But for obvious reasons im putting it accross as a review, but if i reject a site i guess you could say ive reviewed the site for free, i always give a refund so i can never justify holding onto someones cash if they dont get listed, its like mugging people on the internet.

    See this is where the loopholes and less than crystal clear comes into things, when google introduces something and people feel they need to alter something to still be seen as complying it then gets confusing.

    I cannot charge you for something i have not "truely" provided for you, as the submitter you know yourself that your after the listing, so it sounds weird when i refund your review fee but that is what i will do.
     
    pipes, Aug 25, 2007 IP
    CReed likes this.
  3. 121603

    121603 Peon

    Messages:
    933
    Likes Received:
    22
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #23
    as a submitter, I guess it is ok if you don't refund IF(!) you give me a clear review of what the problem is.

    I don't really like to receive emails telling me something like, "please refer below for possible reasons blah blah blah". Come on, if you are really reviewing then give me the reason for non-acceptance. :p
     
    121603, Aug 25, 2007 IP
  4. The Pheonix

    The Pheonix Banned

    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    96
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #24
    To call a directory 'high quality' you have to BE high quality, they means reviewing a site right? Well if you don't want to offer a refund for sites not accepted give the submittor ample evidence that you have at least gone through (reviewed) his site, (not just the front page) and then tell them the bad news. Me, I tend to offer them a chance to make amends the errors in a specific time frame whereupon they will get submitted. It covers me on most occassions.
     
    The Pheonix, Aug 25, 2007 IP
    CReed likes this.
  5. MeetHere

    MeetHere Prominent Member

    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    994
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    330
    #25
    .
    Yes this is also a major concern..

    One more thing, if the non-refund policy is selected, there is likeliness of your approving a submission ( you will think 10 times before rejecting )..
     
    MeetHere, Aug 25, 2007 IP
    CReed and xc06 like this.
  6. malcolm1

    malcolm1 Prominent Member

    Messages:
    7,148
    Likes Received:
    758
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #26
    Hello...

    To be honest ive never even thought about it as i see no need in it.

    For every hundred sites i reject about 20 of them and thats probably due to the
    fact that they where pure crap sites and not worthy of getting a link from me simple as that...

    I can look at a site and tell you within a few seconds whether its going to be listed or not...
    While others may choose to NOT refund i still will continue to do so as i have no right in keeping
    his funds and just cant justify not offering back the payment...

    Look at Botw and established directory thats been doing this for years...
    Reason he doesnt have my links is im not about to just hand over my money for nothing in return...

    thx
    malcolm
     
    malcolm1, Aug 25, 2007 IP
  7. popotalk

    popotalk Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,840
    Likes Received:
    522
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #27
    For now my directory is just a small fish in the sea. Compared to other directories its not that big and popular. My greatest mistake is I started on a wrong direction and would wish to correct those. I am trying to see a reasonable solution for those and upon having it will implement it. For now 2000 listings in total is a great achievement for myself. My priorities and plans are set up but meanwhile the non refund policy is somewhere not near those priorities. A more objective plan for me now is to get me established with my plans. Then there will come a time that this non refund policy can be implemented. As of now I cannot do that since at a very young stage it is not in a position to do it. If my directory matures enough and with the sufficiency of content maybe it would be. But for now it would be the same.

    But one thing is I am not scared if I scare submitters away as it is not my General Purpose. I'll just continue building my directory and continue scrubbing floors.
     
    popotalk, Aug 25, 2007 IP
    CReed likes this.
  8. jhnrang

    jhnrang Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,107
    Likes Received:
    436
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    225
    #28
    Very good point by OP. I have been thinking on same line for quite some time.

    While we take the Review Fee -(was it me who put this word first?:( ) --and the fee is essentially for review -

    There are some very complicated practical problems --

    1) As long as we use Paypal - as our main payment processor - it is useless to implement such policy. Just think of Tonerboss ( or tonerscam:rolleyes:) . They got all their funds refunded even after you guys accepted the site.

    So practically-- whether you follow the policy or not -- the rejected site will get refunds as long as we use Paypal. There is absolutely --and I mean absolutely-- no way out of this. Hence --it will be impossible to apply the policy.

    Another problem is --the more you reject-- the more charge-backs will be filed --and as I understand -if you have too many dispute- Paypal might investigate the accounts.:(


    So --YES-- the point is 100% valid -- but I am sorry to say -it can not be implemented.

    The best way IMHO is -to make a partial refund - which should be clearly stated in the TOS. If we have that kind of TOS -Paypal might understand the nature of our review service as well.

    Just my 2Paisa:D
     
    jhnrang, Aug 25, 2007 IP
    balkanboy and CReed like this.
  9. popotalk

    popotalk Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,840
    Likes Received:
    522
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #29
    I dont care about paypal either if I do it. I need a statement and submit it to them for notification. its just not the time. TOS dated and approved by payment processor would be valid. Notification and a registered primary business will give it a credible reference and paypal might agree to it. It is the same as any other entity with legal bounds as long as there are licenses, spa's or any dated artifacts your ok.
     
    popotalk, Aug 25, 2007 IP
  10. malcolm1

    malcolm1 Prominent Member

    Messages:
    7,148
    Likes Received:
    758
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #30
    When paypal controls 80% of online sells then i think you might CARE :)
    as if they decide to gank you your done with payments from the online world..

    If the guildlines state that you will not offer refunds then i cant really see
    paypal deleting or shutting down your account...

    But this brings me to my question ... WHY? would anyone keep fees...

    thx
    malcolm
     
    malcolm1, Aug 25, 2007 IP
  11. popotalk

    popotalk Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,840
    Likes Received:
    522
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #31
    As I have said I don't care it means and I mean it and I have been running a legit business now for years. And if I decide to do it in the future even after submitting the necessary forms then to hell with it i use other form of payment. And I have this as my Payment for this Company. :)
     
    popotalk, Aug 25, 2007 IP
  12. khushal

    khushal Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,475
    Likes Received:
    198
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    155
    #32
    I run a MySpace Links Directory. In the starting days and till now i used to get many featured submission for gambling sites and everytime that i had to re-fund i asked the DP'ers for a suggestion. Many suggested to mention straight in the guidelines that Gambling etc sites won't be listed and a REVIEW fee of $X would be kept and the remaining refunded. Ever since i started this thing, the submissions lessened but i've been charging a $5 review fee, and if the site is a gambling shit, or not in accordance it won't get listed and the remaining money is refunded.
     
    khushal, Aug 25, 2007 IP
    CReed and Analyst like this.
  13. smub

    smub Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,443
    Likes Received:
    375
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    230
    #33
    i remember jeff had this problem, and due to excessive attacks and red reps i get from mysterious people who don't leave their name i avoid posting, and just pm'ed him with my reply.

    But Creed im'ed and asked me to put my input here.

    Well fellows, we are selling reviews here, or let me put it this way I along some others are selling reviews. The other half claim to sell reviews, with refundable fee. That sounds like you are selling a link.

    If you are charging for a review, and you review a site and does not like it for example if it was a MFA site, and than u reject it. Your job is done, and you are getting paid for that. If you are doing what you are saying. But many others just say 100% refundable fee.

    It is true that you have to have strict guidelines, but I DO NOT REFUND if the site is MFA, Completely Casino, Gateway Page, Underconstruction site, domains that redirect to another site, Sites full with adsense where the ads override the content.

    And it is stated in my guidelines, so i recommend that many of you who are serious should start reading guidelines. Which now i do in all directories.

    Now, to get my self on the safe side, I added a link to the guideline page on my submission page. Than i added Accept a Term check box, so if you are checking that assures you have read and agreed to the terms.


    In the terms i clearly states

    - You understand that the submission fee is a review fee, and it does not guarantee the inclusion of your site.


    + All payments made to Genuine Paid Directory for a submission review are non-refundable.



    Now will that you get a bad reputation ??? Ofcourse if you be a jack A**

    Alot of directories like stpt.com << will refund your money. Why did they do that. Their new inner policy which public does not know is that they are not accepting any more general directories, so they will refund. But if you submit a site they are accepting and it does not meet their requirement, they will reject without a refund.

    To back it up with paypal, I have had various issues with this in disputes, and so far 10/10 is my rating for winning the dispute because this check box for agreeing terms always help you.

    Now you can give me red rep all you want because i am kind of getting used to of that. Ofcourse don't forget to leave your name, because alot of time i get "you are not that big assH***, keep your advices to yourself" something like those....

    ok i am not that big but this is just what i think.
     
    smub, Aug 25, 2007 IP
    muskur, popotalk, CReed and 3 others like this.
  14. popotalk

    popotalk Notable Member

    Messages:
    4,840
    Likes Received:
    522
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #34
    Well said smub and Creed needs an input and we also had a nice dicussion about this. Its a good subject.

    btw: I also get a lot of those REDS :(

    Here is a Green for you.
     
    popotalk, Aug 25, 2007 IP
    smub and xc06 like this.
  15. xc06

    xc06 Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,498
    Likes Received:
    332
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    203
    #35
    I won't consider non-refund policy atm...it can be abused by some QBC directory owner and probably would ruin the business.
    As MeetHere pointed out, it is easier to reject those sites you don't like with refund policy. :)
     
    xc06, Aug 25, 2007 IP
  16. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,767
    Likes Received:
    958
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #36
    One reason il always give a refund regardless, even if they were listed for three months and for some reason they were needing a refund i would still do it, is because of my reliance on online payment processors.

    On one of my directories i have 5 payments processing options for a submitter to choose from, but naturally 99% comes through paypal, now if i dont play the game sensibly i could lose my account, leading to a massive problem for an online business.

    Im definately selling links, theres no 2 ways about that, its just that to keep the Illuminati controlled google machine happy it is referred to as a review.

    A little like those places you can go to get a massage, only their providing extras if you know what i mean, lol, different label but step inside and you will see what we sell. ;)
     
    pipes, Aug 25, 2007 IP
  17. smub

    smub Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,443
    Likes Received:
    375
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    230
    #37
    well pipes if you are selling links than say you are selling links, otherwise you are false advertising you know. We charge for a review, but you are charging for a link.

    Secondly, don't use this to an advantage because than you will get a bad rep. Like BOTW has obtained among the many members of this forum. When i get a site which is like good but i can't put it in for some reason, i usually email the person if i can get in touch with him/her.... tell him what they can fix so it makes their site better and me to approve. Most of them put right contact, some does not reply. The one does not reply, i refund, but those who reply obviously fix it.


    So all to all, make sure you are clear in your guidelines.. and the things you absolutely don't allow, don't refund. Things that are doubty like site content, or you are not sure, than refund is the best way to go.
     
    smub, Aug 25, 2007 IP
    compostannie, The Pheonix and pipes like this.
  18. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,767
    Likes Received:
    958
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #38
    Hi smub, to be honest i need to check the submission guidelines for each of my directories, i dont think i state that its a link or review, i will check them all.

    I know that it says i will refund in full, i fully agree that if in your mind your seeing it as selling links then it should be stateds as that and not a review.

    Im just saying that we all know exactly what were doing and at the end of the day its the listing that the site owner/company is after. :)

    I fully agree though, transparency always.
     
    pipes, Aug 25, 2007 IP
  19. msolution

    msolution Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    123
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    175
    #39
    Totally relate to u dude!
    i can actualy open up a red rep wholesale dealership here,
    my warehouse is full of them :)

    but i for one have found a way to know exactly who gave me one,
    well.... 90% of the times.

    click on the beam balance of everyone on the thread in which u got a red,
    if they gave u a red, you will not be able to give them a rep,
    youll get an alert for that! ... so i know all of you wise A**e* who gave me a red!:mad:

    ** Sorry if off topic **

    Regards,
    M.
    PS: im still wrking on this technique and i may be wrong, but as of now this is my best bet! ;)
     
    msolution, Aug 25, 2007 IP
    jhnrang and bobby9101 like this.
  20. Lexiseek

    Lexiseek Banned

    Messages:
    2,499
    Likes Received:
    115
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #40
    IMHO, it's a solid business practice to offer any unhappy customer a refund, and an easy way to get their money back. There's nothing to stop them from charging back anyways.
     
    Lexiseek, Aug 25, 2007 IP