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Recomended Books On Web Design

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by Storm-Crow, Aug 30, 2007.

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  1. cashinwebsites

    cashinwebsites Peon

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    #21
    You can continue praying and hoping, but the real fact is that this guy asked for stuff not related to what you wrote. He does not need CSS. And please don't promote me Lynda's video crap, go and view them youirself, if they are so helpful for you.
     
    cashinwebsites, Sep 5, 2007 IP
  2. Dan Schulz

    Dan Schulz Peon

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    #22
    And pray tell what are you going to have him learn? <font> tags and all that garbage? There's a reason why code like that is being taken out to the back of the wood shed for the Old Yeller treatment, and that's because HTML is a structural markup language, not a presentational markup language.

    If you're going to learn HTML, you HAVE to learn CSS as well, there's no way around it. As I tell people all the time, HTML is for structure, CSS is for appearance, and JavaScript is for interaction.
     
    Dan Schulz, Sep 5, 2007 IP
  3. cashinwebsites

    cashinwebsites Peon

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    #23
    I agree. But some people want to be pro designers and some just need to create couple of pages or very simple site. If you need something quick, HTML is a way to go. If you need professional presentation - HTML + CSS will work.
     
    cashinwebsites, Sep 5, 2007 IP
  4. Dan Schulz

    Dan Schulz Peon

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    #24
    HTML really doesn't do much though. All it does is defines the structure of a Web page. It's the framework upon which the rest of the Web page is built.

    If you're going to do (or learn) something, do it right the first time around so you don't have to waste your time and money relearning how to do everything.

    And yes, I'm saying this from experience.
     
    Dan Schulz, Sep 5, 2007 IP
  5. quikfind_jerry

    quikfind_jerry Peon

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    #25
    Search for webdesigning tips in Google, you will get a lots of tips websites ;)

    regards
    Jerry
     
    quikfind_jerry, Sep 5, 2007 IP
  6. Munkyonline

    Munkyonline Peon

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    #26
    Books I''ve used are The Complete Reference HTML by Thomas A Powell, Designing with Web Standards by Jeffrey Zeldman and another great book by Cameron Adams, Jina Boulton, David Johnson, Steve Smith and Jonathan Snook - The Art and Science of CSS on Sitepoint.

    I made a list of 5 Top Tutorial Websites on my blog which may be useful :)
     
    Munkyonline, Sep 5, 2007 IP
  7. cashinwebsites

    cashinwebsites Peon

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    #27
    But again, the question is: what type of website you need.
    I can build very high quality websites using just Front Page and Photoshop. And I am speaking from experience too.
     
    cashinwebsites, Sep 5, 2007 IP
  8. soulscratch

    soulscratch Well-Known Member

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    #28
    Examples of some?
     
    soulscratch, Sep 8, 2007 IP
  9. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #29
    ... and not have them work right in any browser other than IE, or when 'large fonts/120dpi' is turned on, or have anything approaching usability for non-visual navigation or non-mouse navigation, or validate, taking two to four times the HTML that should be needed - and of course the images will be five to six times the needed size too since images saved by photoshop usually end up about as bloated as photoshop is itself.

    'high quality' - RIGHT. Tell me another one.

    I'll believe that when I see it - which probably means never.

    But then, I don't consider anything churned out by ANY WYSIWYG to be 'high quality'.

    Because if THIS:
    <tr>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="252"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="43"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="82"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="33"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="50"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="69"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="14"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="24"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="5"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="51"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="18"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="15"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="61"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="14"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="39"></td>
      <td><img height="1" alt src="_borders/spacer.gif" width="10"></td>
    </tr>
    Code (markup):
    Is your idea of quality...

    Seriously, 302k in 30 files for THIS: http://www.cashinwebsites.com/

    Gotta love those two minute page-loads for dialup users... /FAIL/ at intarweb. MAXIMUM should be somewhere around 150k in 10 files... I'm willing to bet less than that. File reduction ALONE would knock 10-30 seconds off the page load time depending on how long handshaking takes for the client.
     
    deathshadow, Sep 9, 2007 IP
  10. cashinwebsites

    cashinwebsites Peon

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    #30

    My website does NOT load 2 minutes on dial up. And what are you suggesting? Using CSS that's always get's messed up in different browsers? Or someone with less experience does update and it get's screwed up?

    Also, when visitors come to site - do they check source code? Do they care how it is written? If you love to sit and code - great for you. But I have easier ways to create high quality websites.
     
    cashinwebsites, Sep 9, 2007 IP
  11. cashinwebsites

    cashinwebsites Peon

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    #31
    www.fishtanks101.com
    Of course you will try to find at least something to object that this website is high quality, that's understandable... You will go into source code, or whatever. You will tell me that some lines are not perfect. But the bottom line is: this is a high quality website and I did not use heavy CSS, Java and other things to make it.
     
    cashinwebsites, Sep 9, 2007 IP
  12. finqoo

    finqoo Well-Known Member

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    #32
    I learnt loads from the books:

    HTML 4 for the world wide web - Elizabeth Castro and
    PHP for the world wide web - Larry Ullman

    The first one was recommended to me and I would have no hesitation in recomending it to you. Online guides are fine but it is so much easier when you have a book that you can reference.
     
    finqoo, Sep 9, 2007 IP
  13. soulscratch

    soulscratch Well-Known Member

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    #33
    I've read the 5th edition of Castro's book on HTML and Ullman's latest PHP 5 Advanced book, but the ones you mentioned are pretty outdated.
     
    soulscratch, Sep 9, 2007 IP
  14. finqoo

    finqoo Well-Known Member

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    #34
    These are the books I still have in front of me on my bookcase, I bought them like 3 years ago.. Like I said, they taught me a lot. But nothing beats experience .
     
    finqoo, Sep 9, 2007 IP
  15. flash902007

    flash902007 Banned

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    #35
    the web design business kit from sitepoint.
     
    flash902007, Sep 9, 2007 IP
  16. cashinwebsites

    cashinwebsites Peon

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    #36

    Is that thing good? What's in it?
     
    cashinwebsites, Sep 9, 2007 IP
  17. Rasczak

    Rasczak Peon

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    #37
    ... for dummies or O'Reilly's books would do...;)
     
    Rasczak, Sep 10, 2007 IP
  18. Dan Schulz

    Dan Schulz Peon

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    #38
    You're right. It doesn't take two minutes to load on dialup. It takes 58 seconds on dialup using Opera - and Opera tends to load pages faster than other browsers, so on average you're going to be looking at about 1:15 to 1:20 on the download time in IE Firefox and Safari.

    Your Web site is also inaccessible to people with disabilities and dialup users who turn images off to improve the download times (I'm on dialup myself and it was one of the first things I noticed when I turned the images off as an accessibilty test). So while your ways may be "easier" they most definately are not better given that your site is alienating a potentially large segment of your userbase by preventing them from even using your Web site.

    As for using CSS, it just takes some time getting used to, like with any other Web technology. Most of the browser issues can be prevented by coding to the standards rather than to the browsers, but unfortunately most people who know how to do this guard it jealously like a family secret. Both deathshadow and I are working hard to change the mindset of developers when it comes to this.

    I didn't need to. I just did a quick 30 second check to see who could use your site. If you like however, I can dig deeper.

    The last book of Liz's HTML VQS (Visual Quickstart Guide) series I'll recommend to anyone will be the 5th Edition (which is what I learned from). Her latest edition (the 6th, as of the time of this post) is a disaster when it comes to accessibility issues and CSS. I'm also currently working my way through the second edition of Larry Ullman's PHP VQS book.

    They are now, but do you know when finqoo got them? They may have been relevant at that time. ;)

    I guess we know when they were acquired then. :) 2004 would mean the 4th Edition of Liz's book was already obsolete, given that the 5th Edition was available.

    That has nothing to do with Web site design itself. It's a business management kit.

    You'd have to be a dummy to get the "... for Dummies" books. I've found most of them to be "way over the heads" of non-technical people, and when I read computer books, I read them with the "average Joe" mindset since I've found (rather odd I might add) that's how I learn best when I do read something.

    As far as O'Reilly's books are concerned, most of them are reference manuals. Though the "Learning __________" books appear to be pretty good so far, with "Learning JavaScript" by Shelly Powers being the best of the bunch (in my opinion, since I don't touch Perl, which if it were to be included would easily take the top spot).

    As I said earlier in this post, it's a kit detailing how to manage a Web design business. It has absolutely nothing to do with Web design itself.
     
    Dan Schulz, Sep 10, 2007 IP
  19. Dan Schulz

    Dan Schulz Peon

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    #39
    And a book that doesn't touch the code. It's more of a philosopher's stone or a "Why you should develop sites this way" book than anything.
     
    Dan Schulz, Sep 10, 2007 IP
  20. bnandika

    bnandika Well-Known Member

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    #40
    I learn from htmldog.com than I buy the book HTML Dog: The Best Practice Guide to XHTML and CSS
     
    bnandika, Sep 10, 2007 IP
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