Recession?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Fewski, Nov 21, 2007.

  1. d16man

    d16man Well-Known Member

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    #21
    true...I read this week that in some places in California and Nevada 1 in 32 houses are in foreclosure...I think people (and mortgage companies) really made some stupid decisions financially and now it is biting them all in the butt.
     
    d16man, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  2. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #22
    CPI is at 10+%. Not core CPI, true CPI. The measure they used to use, before they couldn't control the numbers in a global economy. Look up what "core inflation" excludes to better understand why it is almost useless.

    Of course, most people don't understand how the housing market has traditionally influenced core CPI's measures of rent.

    Woah there sailor. The credit risk was on the part of the lender. Sure, the borrower defaulted, but the lenders were the ones who chose to give mortgages to people that under normal circumstances would never have qualified.

    The Housing market is in bad shape because of aggressive and irresponsible lending, and because the FED lowered the interest rates to 1%, to offset the dotcom and telecom busts.

    The problem with a leaky dike is, eventually you run out of fingers.

    A lot of people have forgotten that investment means risk. You can't have a vacuum where people only make money on investments, without the possibility of also taking losses. Normally, mal-investment is punished by bankruptcy and foreclosure. Survival of the fittest. If you make bad decisions, you go out of business.

    Because the government subsidizes losses, we pay higher prices, and inefficient businesses and misguided investors never have to see the consequences of their mistakes.

    Imagine if you went to the Casino, and lost $1000. On the way out, the government hands you $1000 back. Wouldn't you go every day, even if the odds were crap and you were the unluckiest man on earth?
     
    guerilla, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  3. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #23
    The housing bubble causing low rents and the new car deals due to chaep loans are keeping the inflation numbers low.

    But yeah inflation is more like 10% for the average guy. Everything is going up in price.
     
    bogart, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  4. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #24
    Thank you. :)
     
    guerilla, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  5. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #25
    bogart, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  6. tesla

    tesla Notable Member

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    #26
    So you think an economy built on consumption is a good thing? You think a society built on debt, where everyone is a slave to some bank or credit card company, is a good thing?

    If you believe this, then you are sadly mistaken, and should read the many threads me and others posted about the economy. An economy built on borrowing, where people live beyond their means, leads to collapse. You are right though, we consume more than we produce, that is the precise problem. A large portion of our manufacturing has been moved overseas, and it won't before the only thing we produce is t-shirts and movies.

    A healthy economy is one that has:

    1. Low inflation. Best achieved by using precious metals and not having a central bank.
    2. Low debt. Because of low inflation, people feel less need to borrow, and saving becomes much more valuable.
    3. A society that has a massive manufacturing and production base.

    When your society is a major world manufacturer and producer, then you have a healthy economy. When you only consume, and hardly produce anything, you are of little value. The only value you have is your ability to consume, but again, as others in this thread have pointed, you can only do that due to borrowing money, because your society doesn't have the manufacturing/production base to build wealth?

    Can you see what I'm saying, the American economy is a house made of cards, and the wind is starting to blow. Do you think it is good we have such a huge trade deficit with China?

    This is one of the best analogies I've seen here at DP. This is exactly how our monetary system works. That $1000 has to come from somewhere, and in the case of the U.S. government, they get it from the people, one way or another. The person who goes in and constantly loses the $1000 is the one the government keeps bailing out.

    Society becomes fixed when the government just lets the person lose one thousand, and if they end up homeless, it is their fault....
     
    tesla, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  7. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #27
    The U.S. population is now 300 million and will grow to 400 million over the next 20 years. The economy can't handle this poulation growth and maintain the same per capita standard of living.
     
    bogart, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  8. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #28
    There is a huge difference between productive consumption, and unproductive consumption.

    And a lot of that consumption is debt, the savings rate in America is negative. Common sense would lead one to ask, "How long can that continue?"

    Reality, America doesn't manufacture half of what it made 20 years ago.
     
    guerilla, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  9. demosfen

    demosfen Peon

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    #29
    With government stealing more and more from middle class and brainwashing the population into relying on devaluing FIAT currency, we are doomed
     
    demosfen, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  10. tesla

    tesla Notable Member

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    #30
    You know, I agree with you. I hate the people who are "engineering" this recession, because, make no mistake about it, it is being engineered. But at the same time, being the ultra competitive man that I'am, and knowing that I have a goal of being, at the very least, a millionaire by the age of 30, I'm up to this challenge.

    It is me vs the Fed, the globalists, the government, the super wealthy. Their goal, to make me poor, to push me into a massive poverty of which I will never be able to get out of. My goal: to become a millionaire by 30, but most importantly, to become financially independent.

    I think I'm down for this challenge. I want to beat these guys so bad, the super rich, and the best way to beat them is to:

    1. Study them, understand everything about them, their strengths and weaknesses.

    2. Know everything about yourself, your own strength and weaknesses.

    By following Sun Tzu's principle of the Art of War, you demosfen, me, anybody, can beat the crap out of these guys, and rise up in society in a time where it is becoming harder. I've picked, perhaps, the worst time in history to try to rise up when the U.S. is in a recession. But I love the challenge, and doing makes you 30 times stronger.

    I will literally go out and buy books written by these guys just to see how they think. All is not lost yet, you must have superior discipline, stern resolve, and the ability to look beyond the present and into the future. Yes, the U.S. is in a bad way, but there are enormous opportunities out there just waiting for you, if you only have the resolve and determination to reach out and grab them.

    The economy may crash, but my personal finances won't. I'm ready for Financial World War three. I'm going to use every weapon in my arsenal to outfox these guys and come out on top.
     
    tesla, Nov 23, 2007 IP
    demosfen likes this.
  11. tesla

    tesla Notable Member

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    #31
    I urge those in this forum who feel a sense of hopelessness to realize this: The super rich who run our society are not omnipotent. They can't see everything, they have holes and weaknesses just like us all. The man or woman who survives is the person who can find these weaknesses, and exploit them.

    Now is the time for knowledge. Ignorance must end. The elite win because they know a lot of stuff, and we don't. This is why I spend more time reading, and less time watching television. Television is used to brainwash the masses, turning them into slaves. Only through reading and a deep understanding of the nature of this world can you rise up and defeat your enemies.

    God, you should see my reading list at Amazon, my wish list. I have an arsenal of books, mostly related to finance, economics, the New World Order, and advanced technologies. I only read the best books. Right now, I'm reading the 33 Strategies of War by Robert Greene, and I'm preparing contingency plans for the continuity of my business and the protection of my finances in the event the U.S. economy takes a major dive.
     
    tesla, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  12. guru-seo

    guru-seo Peon

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    #32
    That is great! You are an enlightened man. If everyone thought and acted like you did, we would not have the problems we have today in our society.
     
    guru-seo, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  13. tesla

    tesla Notable Member

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    #33
    I appreciate the comments, I try my best. I've read 12 non-fiction books this year, and I still feel like there is so much in this world that I don't understand. But one thing I do understand is that the real reason why the U.S. economy is facing a decline is because the elite want to wipe out the Middle Class.

    The Middle Class is the most important thing you can have in a country. It is what separates a first world country from a third world nation. Once the Middle Class is crushed, only the super rich and super poor will remain. Look at Mexico and other third world countries. Is this not what you see there? A tiny elite and massive population of poor people?

    In a true free market, the rich are always in a perilous position. This is because you always have to look out for the competition, who have the same opportunity to rise up on the social ladder. In a free market, the rich could be knocked off their positions easily by someone who is hungry and determined.

    You could liken a free market to boxing. You've got a world champion, who has knocked out a lot of people, and has made hundreds of millions. But that world champion has to train hard to maintain his position, because if he isn't careful, a younger boxer who is hungry for fame and glory may rise through the ranks and beat him to a pulp, taking his belt. It happens all the time in boxing. A boxer gets comfortable, underestimates his competition, and suddenly loses in a massive upset.

    This is how America is supposed to be. But right now, we have an elite that has decided they don't want a free market. This is why you have outsourcing, the devaluation of the dollar, and the increase in the illegal immigration. Can everyone in this forum see that all these things are designed to weaken the Middle Class?

    Once the Middle Class is successfully destroyed, America as a nation will be finished. Only by maintaining our Middle Class can we become strong again, and to do this, we have to change our monetary policy, stop outsourcing jobs, and for crying out loud, seal the damn borders, and stop letting illegals flood the country!
     
    tesla, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  14. tesla

    tesla Notable Member

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    #34
    You know, last year, when I posted a thread here at DP about the ban on Online Gambling here in the U.S., there was actually a member who came in and said that the reason the government did it was because "they don't want people becoming addicted to gambling."

    LOL!!!!!! That post was so naive and laughable. Do you guys really think the government banned online gambling, because they don't want you becoming addicted to it? Do you really think, the government outlaws prostitution because they are afraid of the spread of STDs? Do you think the U.S. government has a War on Drugs, because they care about your health, and don't want you becoming sick, or addicted? If you think that, I have a mansion on Neptune I want to sell you for $5 million.

    All these laws are existence because Online gambling is a billion dollar market, prostitution is a billion dollar market, drugs are a billion dollar market, and it is hard for the government to tax or control it. These industries also give rise to rich people that could threaten the current establishment, the current elite.

    It is all about power, money, and control. Only the naive and ignorant think otherwise..........
     
    tesla, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  15. demosfen

    demosfen Peon

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    #35
    You are a second person recommending The art of war, I tried reading it once but found difficult to follow, need to try again

    I happen to be a bookseller by trade, get to come across useful and enlightening books every once in a while. Wish I had more time to read. The Federal Reserve shareholders would have to find a job if people stopped watching Fox and sending their children to public schools
     
    demosfen, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  16. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #36
    I'd also recommend the Art of War, and Niccolo Machiavelli's "The Prince".
     
    guerilla, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  17. tesla

    tesla Notable Member

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    #37
    Demosfen, the Art of War is about 2,000 years old, and you are not the first person I've come across who have had problems reading it. A buddy of mine, who is extremely smart, also had a hard time getting through it. A more modern book that I would recommend, one that basically says the same things as the Art of War, is The 33 Strategies of War by Robert Greene. This book is about 475 pages, I hope to be done by mid December:http://www.amazon.com/33-Strategies...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195864005&sr=8-1

    The book has a cool format. The Chapters a based on laws, and in each Chapter, Greene gives historical examples of generals who followed the strategies of wars, and those who didn't. The author references historical figures like Napoleon Bonaparte, Shaka Zulu, and many more.

    The things that make this book so powerful is that he explains how these strategies and historical examples are relevant in your daily life, and are not just useful for combat. The book is full of quotes and parables, and here is one of my favorite quotes which comes from the Napoleon, which was referenced in the book:

    "It is better to have one bad general than two good ones."

    Basically Napoleon is saying that no organization can survive with two leaders. Thinking about this in relation to the current situation, most of the secret societies that we are up against are Round Table groups, meaning they make decisions as a group. In the Book, Greene talks about the dangers of falling into the "Group Think."

    This is why I think we can beat these guys, because their own egos and in fighting will be their downfall. From a business perspective, the quote by Napoleon also explains why small businesses will never be crushed by large corporations: because small businesses tend only have one real leader, and decisions can be made quickly. There is no need to get a consensus, or have a bureaucracy. This gives the small business more flexibility.

    Finding time to read is tougher than ever, but you've got to do it. There is too much valuable information out there that you will miss if you're getting your information from television, or mainstream magazines or newspapers.

    The Elite doesn't want us to read, and over the millenia, they've used a number of strategies to keep us all ignorant. In the past, they were more brutal and direct. Books were simply too expensive for the masses to afford in many cases, or a "priest" or "scholarly" class were the only ones allowed to read or write. The masses were left to listen and do what this class told them to.

    In the case of the American South before the liberation of Black Slaves, Blacks who were caught reading or educating themselves were punished terribly. The one thing history shows us is that small elites must keep the masses ignorant in order to maintain their own power.

    Today, the elite have become MUCH more sophisticated. They no longer need to overtly restrict books to the masses. All they have to do is keep us brainwashed and mesmerized with television, sports, video games, and make reading appear to be "boring" and "a waste of time." When you combine this with fields such as psychology and sociology, it becomes easy to see why the masses are largely ignorant: Because the elites are master of the human psychology. They understand how humans as a collective species think. They know what colors to use on television shows, what type of music, how to use beautiful women to lure in men. Edward Bernays played an important role in the use of Psychology to manipulate the masses.

    While there is nothing wrong with sports, video games, or even television, for many Americans, these have replaced reading, and it shows in the state of our economy and society. This is why the Elite can write books calling us slaves, and talking about how they will bring in a one world government, and you tell people about, they either don't know, or call you a conspiracy nut. They do this because they haven't read the books of the powerful elite. Once you do, you realize what is really going on in the world.
     
    tesla, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  18. tesla

    tesla Notable Member

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    #38
    If I were you, I would make a small bit of time to read each day. We live in an Age of Information, and the biggest problem most people face right now is that there is too much information available. Here is how I deal with it:

    1. I avoid wasting time reading things that to me are not important. I only buy books I'm interested, those with good reviews, and those which I find to be relevant. For example, I don't waste time reading articles about celebrities like Jessica Simpson or Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. I need to focus on my own life, and not the life of someone else. For me therefore, tabloids and internet articles about celebs are a total waste of time.

    2. I avoid information that is not important to me. I spend the most time reading things that are very relevant.

    3. I reserve a little bit of time each day to read, even it is 10 or 20 pages.

    If you can get a book, and practice reading about 10 to 20 pages per day, this should not take more than an hour if you're are fairly quick reader. Even with a large 400 page book, you should be done in about two weeks. If necessary, start with five pages per day.

    My general rule of thumb is to read at least one book per month, not including all the articles, blogs, and other information I read on the web.

    I find reading to be incredibly rewarding, because when you read books, especially on a variety of different topics, you can formulate unique ideas by combining the concepts that you discover by reading. If you read a really good book, and apply the things you learn, it can change your live in a way you've never imagined.

    I'm doing pretty good financially, and I credit this success to reading good financial books, and applying the things I read with discipline. This is what I think leads to success, but that is just me.
     
    tesla, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  19. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

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    #39
    We are not flirting with a dollar crisis, the dollar was over valued and has come down. Two because of a lower dollar value, our exports increased 15% last quarter. A strong dollar doesn’t mean a strong economy when the dollar was the strongest against the Euro and Canadian dollar and other currencies in 2001-2002 our economy was in a recession. 1979/80 interest rates were a response to double digit inflation which we are not seeing now.
     
    soniqhost.com, Nov 27, 2007 IP
  20. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

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    #40

    I know the difference between the Traditional CPI and the Core CPI.

    Two how are we subsidizing China?
     
    soniqhost.com, Nov 27, 2007 IP