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Racist? "Indians Only..."

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by recraig2, Aug 14, 2011.

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  1. tattoos

    tattoos Prominent Member

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    #101
    Although I haven't seen anything that even remotely resembles harassment in this thread, use the report button for the posts that you think are. Also, if what you "say" is true about receiving threatening PM's, then forward them to a mod and let them take care of it.
    SEMrush
    PS. FYI Reporting Posts or Private Message
    Cheers
    James
     
    tattoos, Sep 14, 2011 IP
    SEMrush
  2. recraig2

    recraig2 Well-Known Member

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    #102
    Thanks James. Rest assured the PM has been reported. Personal attacks are harassment. They are inflammatory and unnecessary in a discussion. There have been a handful here. Considering how lively this thread has been that's quite small. Nevertheless, they do interfere with healthy discussion and are clearly intended to start a fight or to ostracize a member, neither of which is appropriate. I am saying this chiefly for the sake of this individual who took it to another level.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
    recraig2, Sep 14, 2011 IP
  3. dragoninja98

    dragoninja98 Peon

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    #103
    hahaha....come on buddy...don't let yourself down on this and think the worlds going topsy turvy
    There are so many other things to worry about apart from racist ads
    If the hirer likes Indians, let it be :D
     
    dragoninja98, Sep 17, 2011 IP
  4. lowrisk24

    lowrisk24 Greenhorn

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    #104
    Now I have given paid work to people of all nationalities and race on here, some being Indian. My gut response to this would be the person knows that that Indian people will work for far less. However, in my experience they haven't always done the best job. They may have been cheaper, but you do get what you pay for.
     
    lowrisk24, Sep 17, 2011 IP
  5. recraig2

    recraig2 Well-Known Member

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    #105
    Who are you talking to? This isn't a "rant" about something someone's sad about or angry about. It is a discussion, well for those who are treating that way. What is the point of this post in the discussion? We are asking why someone would word it this way and if there were any justification to not list the skills they were looking for instead. Thanks for the encouragement though.

    Thanks for the input lowrisk. It is good to know some people are willing to hire any nationality and race. Also, thanks for distinguishing between these two categories. Unfortunately, I think no one else wants to grapple with the issue proposed as the heart of the discussion.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2016
    recraig2, Sep 17, 2011 IP
  6. recraig2

    recraig2 Well-Known Member

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    #106
    Ok, some have asked for an example. Here is an example of the opposite. This guy is selling is crappy writing service and does not want Indians to reply. Read and then tell me what you think.

    The bolding is mine so you can find it among the crap. I am not sure what this guy is trying to prove, but I would not touch his writing services with a 10-foot pole! Throw in his racist comment against Indians and definitely wouldn't touch it. Would you?
     
    recraig2, Sep 18, 2011 IP
  7. lowrisk24

    lowrisk24 Greenhorn

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    #107
    I do agree that the above quoted post probably will have naturally received more negative attention and been deemed "racist" as opposed to somebody saying "Indians only". Why that is, well it could be a number of reasons really. I won't go into them all, but I think both are potentially racist in some peoples eyes.

    Only recently, I read an article about a house up for rent "To Chinese people only". Now the council did very little, had somebody put "Whites only" this would have been deemed racist.
     
    lowrisk24, Sep 19, 2011 IP
  8. BENNY8877

    BENNY8877 Member

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    #108
    From my experience it is because they are offering a less than average wage. That is their way of weeding out the people that will complain about the low amount.
     
    BENNY8877, Sep 21, 2011 IP
  9. recraig2

    recraig2 Well-Known Member

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    #109
    It's not like they could say, "Very Low Rate for the Right Writer" ? They have to propagate racism? If they mean to weed out those who complain about low rates, meaning that there are writers applying and then finding out about the low rate, it makes more sense to say it is a low rate. It makes less sense to say some racist statement like Indians Only. This approach just makes the one posting look uneducated. Which may in fact be the case. Who knows?

    Thanks Benny for the ideas.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2011
    recraig2, Sep 21, 2011 IP
  10. bob kelly

    bob kelly Peon

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    #110
    There are plethora of threads available in this same forum asking ONLY for UK, US writers. More over, there are thousands of websites present only for US, UK users. What do they mean to you? If your answer is that those may be because of payment/operative reasons, why don't you think the same for this? (There can't be anything more than the above stated reason.)

    This is just a forum where everyone gathers to fulfil their needs. So, there is nothing wrong to be SPECIFIC in what they want. Also I am wondering from where does racism come into picture? This needs to be approached only with a broader mindset.

    Also check the meaning for the word 'indian' in a dictionary. That would answer your question. Also, I don't see that you are arguing for a person being racist. But you are trying to get to a conclusion being RACIST.

    So, Wake up!
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
    bob kelly, Sep 22, 2011 IP
  11. recraig2

    recraig2 Well-Known Member

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    #111
    Well, "Bob", your claim that they are looking for something specific is exactly the problem posed here. Reading the previous posts carefully (I know the thread has gotten huge and it's hard), you would have found that the claim is that these advertisers are in fact not being specific. They are averting their wording to request a thing that is irrelevant to the needs at hand. All of the attempts to explain the title have revealed this.

    I will say it for 1000th time, if they want a cheap writer, they should say this is what they are looking for. It has nothing to do with being Indian. I know an Indian writer here who does not charge as cheaply as a couple of native English writers I know do. So your point goes against your plea. Specificity is exactly what this thread is asking for, rather than these racist titles.

    To add one more point that you made in favor of our argument, irregardless of what "race" it is that is being called for in lieu of the skills or rate or financial transfer system, it is racist. As was said earlier, this is not a thread bashing Indians. It just so happens that this was the particular add that I saw which started the thread. Some people, though, are simply eager to twist and argue (not talking about you Bob), rather than constructively discuss. It is a shame we cannot keep these people in their own threads and those of us who want to discuss issues in ours. That is a whole other issue though.
     
    recraig2, Sep 22, 2011 IP
  12. averyz

    averyz Well-Known Member

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    #112
    I think this thread should be renamed to "Recraig2's Dead Horse Pinata" it has no candy only manure but step up and take a swing. You don't have to wear a blindfold only Recraig2 does.
     
    averyz, Sep 23, 2011 IP
  13. recraig2

    recraig2 Well-Known Member

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    #113
    Some people are coming and trying to bury the rational discussion in their harassing statements, trying to start fights, insult individuals, or any number of inflammatory posts. This is a decent topic to discuss and a valid concern. It has nothing at all to do with insulting Indians, by the way. The Indians I work with in my business are great.

    Even if we label the ads we are discussing "racist", it does not mean the people posting them are bad people. Some might be posting them to "balance" the "US/UK Only" ads, but I am sure that the reasons many have suggested here are the valid reasons for many of these ads' titles.

    Good people can make racist statements. These statements should be challenged. But challenging them does not imply the individuals making them are bad people, nor does it imply that their race is a bad race, as some have suggested is being said here. There are no statements that have been made that could be understood in that way, here on this thread. Read for yourself.

    As has also been said many times now, this thread is really not about Indians at all. It is about racist titles in ads. The example used happened to have said "Indians Only", but it could have been any race. Regardless, the point is to bring a focus on rethinking future ads to list skills needed or other requirements, such as the banking issue, that does not limit the transaction to a certain racial profile. Ads that are posted in this way reflect more sophistication and draw more respect from the more serious sellers and buyers here. This is a good reason to discuss this topic.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011
    recraig2, Sep 25, 2011 IP
  14. bathroom_design

    bathroom_design Member

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    #114
    Some Indian writers have good english and some have crap it depends
     
    bathroom_design, Sep 26, 2011 IP
  15. recraig2

    recraig2 Well-Known Member

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    #115
    The same is true of native English U.S. or UK writers.

    I find most Indians I work with conscientious, hard working, and generally really good guys. With native U.S. writers most of them have been real assholes. Maybe a third have been quite decent people. But that doesn't mean that there are 200 million assholes in the U.S. Please, don't make the fatal error of extrapolating one person's very limited experience of a few dozen people and applying the statistics to hundreds of million!
     
    recraig2, Sep 30, 2011 IP
  16. reagent

    reagent Active Member

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    #116
    So, as far as I can see coming through this floody thread, "Indians only" is racist, but "US/UK only" is perfectly legal (with some logical tricks, of course)... Surprise, surprise! Are cover bombings of stinky racists to follow?
    As for me, being a "foreigner" I care neither about Mr. Obama's social security promises or US labor law or "s/his" polit-correctness, nor am going to make a "fair play" and "equal opportunities" games here on my account. Common sense and positive attitude are generally enough for not to offend each other, there's no need to play silly logic. And every job-poster simply needs his job done in what he thinks proper way, without trying to satisfy someones' egos.
    If I have a job to assign and if for whatever reason I believe that it can be properly done only by an Indian (US/UK/one-legged Japanese with two children/etc) -- I'll clearly mark it "For Indians only", so that other people might save their time from chaising for a job they're not likely to get. It has nothing to do with whose race or nationality is better, and I don't feel obliged to explain to any censorious passer-by what I think and why I think so, even less I feel like making excuses.
    This thread is simply stupid.
     
    reagent, Oct 1, 2011 IP
    tattoos and YMC like this.
  17. fernades

    fernades Member

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    #117
    What is the problem with Indians? Uh?
     
    fernades, Oct 2, 2011 IP
  18. recraig2

    recraig2 Well-Known Member

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    #118
    Thank you for your input, though it is unclear what you are arguing, since there is a lot of political rhetoric enmeshed.

    As for the qualifications, what is a
    ? How can a passer-by of your posting of an ad censor you? And how does that exactly relate to this thread? No one is recommending a particular person be censored. But, while you brought up the topic of censoring, this forum DOES in deed censor people. Read the Terms. The censoring is there and this act is justified in keeping peace on the forum. In fact, one of the issues is RACISM. It is a censoring written into the Terms. Whether it is enforced or not is another issue. If you don't like the Terms, you do have choices.

    Who said there were problems with Indians?

    The willingness to read a thread diminishes with its length. That may be why a thread outlives its usefulness. In this case, I think there are knee-jerk reactions to the thread. A knee-jerk reaction is just turning off the mind and screaming. Since this was introduced as a topic of discussion for our benefits as writers, these reactions are quite pointless on this thread. I have tried to keep it that way as much as possible by responding appropriately to some and ignoring others that have been far too aggressive.

    To clear it up again: Indian writers in general are like any other writers, some good and some bad. My experience has been very good. The majority of Indians I have worked with have been stellar. However, this thread is not about evaluating Indian writers as a group. Reading the thread this way is in fact a racist reaction in the reader, defensive, but still racist. So I think those of you who want to try to force it into that kind of perspective need to step back and take a breather and read again.

    This thread is about asking the question, whether it would be better to post the actual skills and requirements you are looking for than to make racist limitations in your ads. After all, not everyone of a certain race will be able to fulfill your expectations that you assume that race can and there are those of other races, perhaps even living in that country, who can also fulfill the requirements. You cannot imagine every possible person's skills and situation for any race. So that is a good enough reason to leave race out of the ad altogether. What do you think?

    Please keep on topic.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2016
    recraig2, Oct 2, 2011 IP
  19. Investdeluxe

    Investdeluxe Member

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    #119
    I can only guess that Indians work at lower rates then most other people and that is why they only wanted to hire Indian writers, They just wanted to save some coin.
     
    Investdeluxe, Oct 2, 2011 IP
  20. WebBuddy

    WebBuddy Well-Known Member

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    #120
    @recraig2, I understand what you are trying to say here, but I don't completely empathize with you. Also, I'd love to see you open a similar and equally vehement thread about WTB threads that ask specifically for US or UK based people.
     
    WebBuddy, Oct 4, 2011 IP
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