I can respond, I just shot that one out there while I go back and find the info. Sorry for offending you by not giving your long post respect of a decent reply. I just got back from the barber shop with my 2 sons and now I'm getting dinner ready, I kinda just hopped back on the thread. My bad.
This guy say's it all: Print This Article The Bible vs. The Quran By Abdullah Al Araby The Quran is the Muslims' Holy Book, the same as is the Bible to Christians, Muslims regard the Quran as the infallible utterance of the Almighty. The word "Quran" means recitation. The name was applied by Mohammed to each individual portion of the Book, but was later used for the whole Book. Mohammed proclaimed the Quran as the miracle that proved his prophethood. There has been, however, much debate among intellectual Muslims on the issue of the miracle of the Quran. Some Arabic scholars like az-Zamakhshari noted more than one hundred grammatical errors in the Quran. The Quran is written in Arabic poetic prose. It is divided into 114 Surahs or chapters, and contains the religious, social, civil, commercial, military, and legal code of Islam. It also contains stories which occur in the Jewish and Christian Scriptures and Apocrypha. The Quran, however, contradicts the Bible in many of the details of these stories, including some of the names of the people involved. When faced by these contradictions, Muslims justify them by claiming that the Bible must have been altered. Yet in no place in the Quran do we find the Omniscient (knowing everything) Allah pointing out these altered passages of the Bible, or revealing the correct ones. Such a claim can also be disputed by historical evidence, as well as by the Quran itself, which approved of the Bible, and said so repeatedly: There is enough evidence to support the claim that the Quran may have been tampered with. Nobody knows where the original Quran is. The Quran that we have in our hands now is called the Uthman's Quran, which was collected long after Mohammed's death. Parts of the original Quran must have been lost, after many of the reciters of the Quran died or were killed in battle. Uthman, the third Caliph (successor of Mohammed) gathered what was left of the Quran, arranged it by length of Surahs rather than chronologically, then burned all other existing copies. The Bible, on the other hand, has stood the test of time. To suggest that the Bible has been altered is against both reason and historic findings. Neither Christians nor Jews can reasonably be accused of altering their Scriptures. One reason is that they didn't have anything to gain from doing so, and if they did, they wouldn't willingly spill their blood defending it. In the book of Revelation God puts a severe punishment on those who add to or take away, any part of God's Word. (See Revelation 22:18 & 19) The Jews were also commanded not to commit such a terrible act. (See Deuteronomy 4:2) Furthermore, Christians and Jews did not alter their Scriptures based on historic evidence. Many manuscripts of early copies of the Bible were discovered through the years, and were found to match the text we have now. Here are some of these famous manuscript: The Sinaitic - It was written in the middle of the fourth century, about 270 years before Islam. It contains the whole of the New Testament and a large part of the Old Testament. It is now kept in the British Museum The Alexandrian - It was written in the early fifth century, more than 200 years before Islam. It contains the whole Bible, except a few pages that have been lost. It is also kept in the British Museum. The Vatican - It was written in the early fourth century, about 300 years before Islam. It contains the whole Bible. It is now kept in the Vatican Library at Rome. These and other manuscripts such as Codex Ephraemi and the Dead Sea Scrolls and the thousands of other copies or part of copies of the early Bibles prove beyond doubt that the Bible could not possibly be altered or corrupted. CAN GOD MAKE THESE ERRORS? Muslims believe that the Quran is a direct utterance of Allah (God). Because God is infallible, one would expect the Quran to be infallible also. However, by examining the Quran, we are faced by many statements that go against the undisputed facts of science. It would be unacceptable if such errors were attributed to a learned human being, worse yet to attribute them to the Omniscient God. The list of the errors in the Quran is very long, and are discussed in full detail in other books. Here, we have a limited space to list only a few samples. Our goal is to question whether God can make such errors, whether God was in fact the author of the Quran. Geographical Errors The Earth is stationary "He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs." Surah 31:10 The Sun sets in a spring "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." Surah 18:86 Historical Errors Pharaoh built the tower of Babel in Egypt "Pharaoh said: "O Chiefs! no god do I know for you but myself: therefore, O Haman! light me a (kiln to bake bricks) out of clay, and build me a lofty palace, that I may mount up to the god of Moses: but as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" Surah 28:38 Alexander the Great was a prophet "They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain (Alexander the Great) Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story." Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends. One (such) way he followed, Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." Surah 18:83-88 Ethical Errors Legalizing perjury "God will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing." Surah 2:225 Legalizing murder "O Apostle! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding." Surah 8:65 Legalizing deceit "God will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth God make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful." Surah 5:89 Legal Errors Scourging the witness "And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-" Surah 24:4 God ordains taking spoils "And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to God,- and to the Apostle, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,- if ye do believe in God and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing,- the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For God hath power over all things." Surah 8:41 Since the Bible came first, and since there is every reason to believe that the Bible was kept uncorrupted, Muslim theologians have lots of explaining to do with regard to such contradictions and errors in their Book. Here's the link http://www.islamreview.com/articles/biblevsquran.shtml
So in response you blindly copy and paste an article full of errors and mistruths from an anti islam website. What a joke . I'm done
[coffee break] Time to learn a new word Religious Aggression Definition 1 : Attacking people of opposite religions with words or weapons [slander, ad hominem, ad godem, rockets, guns, bombs etc] Definition 2: Attacking holy books of opposite religions and finding errors in them Definition 3: Declaring members of opposite religions infidels or terrorists [/coffee break]
Then that means everytime a muslim tells a Christian or a Jew allah is the same god as YAHWEH it should be considered Religious Aggression. Because we know it's not.
Its amazing people goes to such lengths. My simple question is that why there are so many versions of bible when you say its not altered in any case. And every single version is different than other in someway. Care to shed some light on it? In publishing world a version or revised versions carries alteration in the book. There is an OT, NT, KJV, ASV etc etc. 100+, some have addons in them, some have whole chapters missing. Go in the market and look for versions of Quran. You will only find one copy, just one. Here, I'll give you an idea to test the authenticy. Take any version of bible, add some verses in it. they has to look real though. You can't just put MJ's lyrics in it. Try to sell it in the market. Give it any new version name Do the same with Quran. Give it a new version name or something like the new quran or something. See the public's reaction. If they accept them as new versions or not. Heck try to sell the Quran with the same name. People wont take it for free.
There're many versions of the quran also. Just last week I was here and another muslim told me I used a bad version of the quran. The only deleted or added books in the Bible is the apocrypha Version are translated in better english. The King James version uses old english like "thou shalt"= you should. New International uses recent english like "you should"=thou shalt Thats the only type of changes. Everytime I hear this excuse it still sounds like something a child would say. If your going to defend your god do so, don't say he's the same GOD as the Bible. If allah was the same GOD as the Bible, he couldn'd be trusted at all. He said He would never leave HIS people Israel, than turned on his people, for the arabs and, the muslims aren't doing a very good job. So maybe allah will go to China next and change his name again and we'll all have to pray facing China. According to allah it's okay to do that. How would anyone believe in a god who changes his chosen people.
A| THE PRIMAL CREATION. HEAVENS AND EARTH. "The world (Greek kosmos) that then was." Genesis 1: 1, 2-. 2Peter 3:6. B| SATAN'S FIRST REBELLION. The earth became waste and a ruin (Hebrew tohu va bohu). Genesis 1:2-. God created it not a ruin (Isaiah 45:18 , Hebrew tohu) nor waste ("confusion"). C| THE EARTH RESTORED AND BLESSED. "The heavens and the earth which are now." Genesis 1:-2-2:3 . 2Peter 3:7. D| SATAN ENTERS AND THE CONSEQUENCE. Genesis 3. E| MANKIND DEALT WITH AS A WHOLE. Genesis 4-11:26. F| THE CHOSEN NATION CALLED AND BLESSED. Genesis 11:27-Malachi 4: 6. (Jehovah and His kingdom rejected. Israel scattered.) G| THE FIRST ADVENT. (Micah 5:2. Zechariah 9:9). The Four Gospels (Romans 15:8). The King and the kingdom proclaimed and rejected, and the King crucified. H| THE KINGDOM RE-PROCLAIMED. Acts 3:19, 20, etc. The church of God called and taken out, Acts 13 and on, and earlier Pauline Epistles. The kingdom again rejected and Israel again scattered. H| THE KINGDOM POSTPONED AND IN ABEYANCE. "Not yet" (Hebrews 2:8). The later, or Prison Epistles (Pauline). The MYSTERY revealed and proclaimed. Ephesians 3:2-11. Colossians 1:25; 2:2, 3. 1Timothy 3:16. THE NEW HOPE. Philippians 3:11, 14. Titus 2:13. "The church which is His body" called, and taken up. Philippians 3:11, 14. G| THE SECOND ADVENT. "The first resurrection." The kingdom established. The King enthroned. "The day of the Lord." Matthew 24; 25:31. Luke 19:11-27. Isaiah 2:11-19. Joel 2; etc. F| THE CHOSEN NATION RECALLED AND BLESSED. Romans 11:11-36. Acts 15: 16. Isaiah 60, 61, 62. Jeremiah 30, 31. Zechariah 12:13, 14; etc. E| MANKIND DEALT WITH AS A WHOLE. Joel 3:2. Matthew 25:31-46. Acts 15:17. Romans 15: 8-12. Revelation 4-19. D| SATAN BOUND AND THE CONSEQUENCES. Revelations 20:1-3. C| THE EARTH RESTORED AND BLESSED. Revelation 20:4-6. Isaiah 35; etc. The Millennium. B| SATAN'S FINAL REBELLION. Revelation 20:7-10. Followed by the second resurrection and the judgment of the "great white throne". The destruction of "all things that offend". Revelation 20:11-15. A| THE NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH. The day of God. Revelation 21, 22. 2Peter 3:12, 13. Isaiah 65:17; 66:22.
Having probably been one of the few people here to actually read the Bible through several times - there is no conflict between the old and new testaments. The old points towards Christ's coming and the new is about his coming and looks forward to his second coming. Genesis chapter 3 - the fall of man - in the curse of the serpent is the promise of a savior to come. The symbolic of the sacrifice of the lamb in the tabernacle and the temple pointed toward the ultimate sacrifice - the lamb of God Himself Jesus Christ, much of the prophets writings point towards a coming savior, etc. whether you believe in God or not - the Bible presents a unified theme - people often mistakenly think when Jesus came he loosen up obedience - the opposite is true - whereas before adultery was sleeping with another mans wife - Jesus points out that if you even think about it with lust in your mind you've committed the sin already. I'm always amazed at the authority of many on the Bible when they haven't even bothered to read it. God Forgot Nothing. P.S tribulus - great work on showing the unified theme - of course there are even more verses and shared themes.
Man, there are full chapters and verses missing from the NT. Compare it page by page, verse by verse with OT. First do the comparison then try to comment on this. Or you probably going to say 'i'm not gonna do it because i know so'? Then my qustion would be ' how you know it if you didn't do the comparison?' There is no version of Quran. Just one Quran. You can find translations in many languages by different authors. They qualify as the translation of quran but not Quran itself. The muslim you reffering must be pointing towards the translation not the version of Quran. Quran is in Arabic only. Every other language is translation not actual Quran.
The only person who said that, was mohamed and if the quran is true arabs are betraying him too. By being friends with unbelievers. So, there goes their shot. Looks like China is next for GOD to choose! What's stopping the next so called prophet from saying the same thing. Actually a mormon said the same thing already. Now we have mormons. That's why GOD would not substitute HIS word with another, because HE knows the cycle would continue on and on. GOD is more loyal than the quran says.
What is a Cross? for you , Christians ? Do you worship a Cross ? If you really belive that Jesus died on a cross , how can you use it as jewelery , or any other goods ? ( I mean kinda using it like Idol ) Thanks
The cross in its original symbolism is of pagan origin and represented the opening of the female womb and was a symbol of sexual power. For this reason I choose not to use it or follow many of the other so called "Christian" festivals - the only "festival" Christ set up was the communion supper, and baptism. Much of this occurred in the apostasy Paul warned would come into the church bringing in numerous evils and pagan symbols - e.g. the peak hat on top of the bishops is from the fish god dagon, the staff each "bishop" carries is a lightening rod - and has absolutely nothing to do with real Christianity, numerous symbols found in many churches are pagan symbols. e.g. Easter was a pagan festival and is even mention as such in the Old Testament e.g. 25th December - Birth of the Sun God Tamuz Please don't confuse real Christianity with this false apostatized version which mixed paganism and Christianity to produce a hybrid religion acceptable to the masses.
It's not an idol. It just testifies to what HE did for all humanity past, present, and future. islam uses a moon and star for there symbol. Is that an idol, of course not. So what is the moon and star symbol to you? Or better yet what is the coffin of muhammed to you and other muslims? They walk around it all day that's called worship of a dead body. Dead body = idol. That's idol worship. The dome of the rock. More idol worship. Building a temple for a rock! And going infront of it and praying...hummm. Sounds like allah made a bad choice in chosen people again. So, when allah moves to China and changes his name to Chang Lee, you'll beleive them because they will say there prophet said, " islam worshipped prophets and rocks so I choose China as my people and everybody has to learn Chinese and pray facing Tibet. Ohh yeh, and we all have to dress like 7th century Chinamen.
Do you think jesus would have celebrated the torture and death of someone for something he done, In a scapegoat fashion? I'm not holding out much hope for a straight forward answer on this one. So take your time and make sure you effectively dodge the question.
Of course, why do you think HIS sacrifice was done on a sacred Holy Day (Passover Sabbath ). It's meant to be celebrated.
You really think jesus would celebrate the torture and death of a scapegoat to relieve him of his sins? or are you just saying it because you are backed in to a corner?