I understand that you are Muslim and you disagree, but my impression is that you feel like Christians do not have any basis for why they believe Jesus is God. We believe that the bible is the authority and everything in it is infallible. For this reason, we believe Jesus is God. I would obviously disagree with you, but I don't think there is any point in continuing this discussion on this topic because it would be a never-ending one. No one (including Christians) deny that the Father is greater than Jesus Christ. This is part of the trinity. This is part of the trinity that is nearly impossible for all of us to understand. However, the bible clearly shows and tells us that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three persons in one divine being. This does not mean there is not a hierarchy between the three persons that make up God. You just need to reread the chapter and why Jesus was crucified according to the bible. Throughout the Old Testament we hear of prophecies that God was coming to Earth. Jesus fulfilled this and stated that he did on mulitple occasions throughout. This is why the Pharisees had him killed. We see the trinity even in Genesis 1 where God says "Let us make mankind". Throughout the bible we see the trinity in existence and a hierarchy as well within it. There is no contradiction here. I agree that following Jesus is following God if you are truly following Jesus' teaching. However, I disagree that this was the context that he was talking about. You can even see what the Pharisees had to say and why they wanted to stone him at that point. They wanted to stone him because and I quote again, Jesus "claims to be God". Man you are pulling for strings now. It was understood by all Jews who were familiar with the Prophets of the Old Testament that the Messiah was God in the flesh. For example, most Jews (especially Pharisees) would have been familiar with Isaiah's prophecy: Isaiah 9:6 Therefore, the words "God", "Messiah", and "Christ" all have the same emphasis and meaning here. What was the message he was giving then? According to the bible the message is that God the Father sent his son, Jesus, as the Messiah to die on the cross, only to be raised again three days later, conquering death and being the sacrificial lamb for all who have sinned and would accept him as their savior. <- This is the message. Lets read the whole thing, it's a good chapter for this discussion as well. Moses didn't perform any miracles, God did. Reread Exodus 14. Really? I thought we've already went through this. Do me a favor, read the bible front to back and then get back to me in about a month. I think you would have a different opinion. Honestly, I could throw the Quran in the garbage and it wouldn't bother me a bit, so i'm not sure what you are trying to bring up when you approach this discussion with the teachings of it. Not trying to disrespect you personally, I just don't believe a word in the Quran. Even if it said the sky is blue, I would probably disagree with it just because I want nothing to do with Muslim beliefs.
There is NO basis for what you believe in, this is why no christian cannot bring 1 quote from Jesus where he said I am God. There is no point in discussing something you have no knowledge of. Oh so there's a hierarchy now? so they are not all equal...then they are not "ONE". Thank you for supporting my argument. And you keep saying saying that Jesus claimed to be God to the pharisees, show us where he did so explicitly, show us something clear. Nope, you have yet to show a single quote from Jesus himself, where he claims to be God, so no he did not say such things to the pharisees. The verse said "Christ" not "God", lets not twist things, take them out of context and give them false meanings as you have been doing. That's his message according to Christians, a viewpoint which is false. It's understandable that you would resort to insults when being shown how wrong you are about the noble prophet Jesus, peace be upon him. I'm only conveying the message , I don't ask anyone for money here, it's up to you to accept or reject, but don't be so low to start insults, be a man and take the facts.
Ya be a man and take the facts : Jews did WTC Islam MUST rule the world Terrorist are never Muslims and if your name is SolarProducts you must add most posters on P&R on your ignore list in order to avoid getting owned .
Okay to summarise: 1. God died + God is eternal = Contradiction 2. Jesus said to God "Why has thou forsaken me"...this speech of Jesus sounds nothing like someone who is God 3. No Christian has yet to bring a single quote from Jesus himself, where he says "I'm God". SP
Jesus on was not in his God form while on Earth . It is written that His earthly body was born by The Virgin Mary . During the crucifiction his body died . It was the only way that The Father would forgive mankind's orginal sin . As for the other two you can easily find that out by googling it . Since you're suppose to be a webmaster then it should be easy for you yo find that out . Althou ignorance is bliss .
The Christians follow a book with mistakes: "Those who worship and invoke others besides Allâh, in fact they follow not the (Allâh's so-called) partners, they follow only a conjecture and they only invent lies." Yunus 65 They claim Allaah has a son, eventhough their own fabricated scipture does not say that: "They (Jews, Christians and pagans) say: "Allâh has begotten a son (children)." Glory is to Him! He is Rich (Free of all needs). His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. No warrant you have for this. Do you say against Allâh what you know not."[] Yunus (68) " "Say: "Verily, those who invent a lie against Allâh will never be successful" - Yunus (69) If you wish to continue on this erroneous path, then do so, but be warned: "(A brief) enjoyment in this world! - and then unto Us will be their return, then We shall make them taste the severest torment because they used to disbelieve [in Allâh, belie His Messengers, deny and challenge His Ayât (proofs, signs, verses, etc.)]." Yunus (70) Or, embrace Islaam: "O you who believe [in Mûsa (Moses) (i.e. Jews) and 'Iesa (Jesus) (i.e. Christians)]! Fear Allâh, and believe too in His Messenger (Muhammad peace be upon him), He will give you a double portion of His Mercy, and He will give you a light by which you shall walk (straight), and He will forgive you. And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Al-Hadid 57:28)
SolarProducts, I think I have given enough scripture to back why Christians believe the way they do. However, you are now resorting to "you are twisting it". Therefore, I think we should get your interpretation to these scriptures that have been referenced. Instead of ignoring them, please explain them from the biblical reasoning. Honestly, no one cares what you personally believe as a Muslim. We all know that the Muslim belief is simply to view Jesus as a prophet. However, Christians believe he was much more than that and I think if you took a few days to read the bible including the Old Testament you would see why. My impression is that you haven't read much of the bible, if any. Is this a true speculation or not? As for me, I have been honest and told you that I don't know much about the Muslim religion. I know enough that I don't want any part of it and wouldn't believe anything the Quran has to say. However, I think you simply are trying to act like you know some things about the bible, but haven't ever really read it and might be going off simply what you have heard others in your faith say. I think to get to the root of this, we need to hear you explain what the "true meaning" of these verses are, specifically the bolded areas/questions: These were some scriptures you stated I was twisting or you simply ignored. What is your interpretation? I'm pretty confident I know what is being referenced and talked about here, but I haven't heard your version. I'm sure others would like to know not just myself.
We can dismiss what you quoted from John and Matthew, simply because they are not Jesus. (even though I can address these passages) As for Isiah 9:6, then other people other than Jesus have been called "God", this does not mean they are actually God, it is just so that people in those times did so, no idea why. For example: "I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High." Psalms 82:6 What we need is Jesus himself saying: "I am God" - I will send you $1,000,000 to your PayPal Account, if you can get me such quote from the bible.
wow do you have such money my lord!? it worth to bring back Jesus to earth and say what you need to hear! lol pardon interrupt you. really enjoy of your conversation.
Don't ever call me your lord! "Truly! Allâh is my lord and your lord, so worship Him (Alone). This is the Straight Path. "(Aali Imran 3:51)
Babak, I'll share with you. We can have SolarProducts divide the money equally between us. I found this... John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.â€
oh Rebecca you are such a lovely person. yeah we become winner. I will spend half of my prize in charity purposes!
"I and My Father Are One" is not the same as "I am God",my question was specific. It could mean "one" in many things, not necessarily in Godship. If you go back just 1 verse, you will see Jesus saying "My father is greater", contradiction? are they one/equal? or are is one of them greater than the other? Sorry to ruin your little moment, but not only have you failed, but you made the case for Christianity look worse.
maybe on that time Jesus was child, who cares, is their size a matter for you? it's not fair, you have to pay it! Rebecca answered you "God was his father anyway". at least pay my 50 percent bro!
Don't embarrass yourself, I asked for where he said "Im God", nothing else. And "I and my Father are one" has a different meaning to "I'm God", as I have explained before. Please no more useless posts. PS: To those who are looking for what I'm asking for, don't waste your time, because you will NEVER find it.
It seems you're looking for the exact phrase where Jesus said: I'm God That phrase can't be found in the Bible. The question is, why is this important to you? I rarely say the words: I'm a human There is no need to do it. It's obvious for everybody that sees me. In the same way it is obvious that Jesus is God...If you want to see it. No man can make a blind man see, only God can. No man can make a lame guy walk, only God can. No man can tell the storm to calm down, only God can. No man can forgive sins, only God can. Jesus did all of this and a lot more.
Jesus did some miracles by the will of God, he did not do anything on his own: John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." Why is it so important for to know where Jesus said "I'm God"? Because I trying to show you that Jesus is not God, so we need to see where he made such claims, if you have it fine, if you don't then he is not God. Regards SP
Strange question. Of course I didn't witness that. Nor did I witness our whole history. Do you believe history books? If so, only those who don't speak about Jesus or both?