I was just wondering whether there was anyway you can stop domaintools.com from showing your details for domains you previously registered but have expired. I had whois protection when I initially registered the domain names and I thought it would protect my information even after the domain has expired. so is there anyway?
DomainTools.com keeps the history of domain details in their database. Hence, it is now possible to stop.
Short of suing them, no. OTOH, the way DomainTools works is like this: 1. Someone does a WHOIS query using their site. 2. DomainTools queries the sponsoring WHOIS registrar's server. 3. It makes a record in their database if a result is found. And as you eventually learned, WHOIS privacy doesn't hide the actual details after a domain expires. That's common among registrars.
Actually, I think what domaintools are doing is somewhat illegal. They have no right to store someone else information on their server and then sell that information for a price. I think the only way to stop this is to file a PIL with the US courts and bring a ban on them since this is more likely a violation or privacy.
Its not just their site. DomainTools (NameIntelligence) also provides DNS services for GoDaddy, NetSol, Enom, Directi..... http://www.nameintelligence.com/customers/ "Our internal databases store millions of DNS records on the industry each day. We utilize our years of experience with our proprietary information to form a domain information company like no other."
I believe that registrant history should not be made public or sold. It should be accessible to law enforcement agencies only and that too when they specifically demand information for specific domain. And I think this is what domaintools is doing. If you want to see the registrant history or other sensitive information, buy a subscription. Its as good as or equivalent to selling someone else information for money. What you guys say? Am I right or wrong?
That's essentially the problem. WHOIS data, especially for .com, has always been public, and that's still being debated amongst interest groups for seven years and counting. People can argue both ways until everyone's black and blue. It won't change the status quo until ICANN or some higher authority does something about it, and that's not always easy given the different and usually conflicting groups involved. And what's PIL?
I contacted them and they said that there is nothing that can be really done about it and that nothing on the world wide web ever gets deleted.
Contacted whom? Domain Tools? I don't think they will entertain any public requests. The only way to stop them is to use the legal methods under the privacy violation act. I don't think they should be doing all this. I mean selling the registrant history. We have not authorised any 3rd party to sell our registrant details for money. I think we all can sue them.
That's rather true. No one's really obligated or required to do anything for any person unless any law or agreement exists, which includes whatever detail is posted online for all the world to see. From what you described, alok, that's an Indian law? Unless the U.S. or what other countries agree to it via treaty or what-not, that privacy act will apply only in India and nowhere else. Various countries have various laws on otherwise similar issues. If you wish to sue DomainTools, unfortunately you'll have to sue in their jurisdiction if that is to have any practical effect. Let's just say that unless any applicable law exists addressing a privacy issue specifically, there is truly no realistic expectation of online privacy. But I don't recall the internet ever intended to grant privacy to begin with.
I think Domain Tools is a US company. So someone in the US will have to discuss this matter with some legal expert and then bring this matter to the court. What I believe is that neither me or any domain registrant has authorised any 3rd party to access, store or sell our data. Whois privacy statement clearly mentions that: And this is where Domain Tools can be sued. Its a clear violation of privacy and whois usage policy.
But DomainTools gets the info before it is entered into the WHOIS. They run whois/dns services for most major registrars (Godaddy, Enom, NetSol...) and get the info from that activity not from the WHOIS database.
Well, when we register a domain, our agreement is with the registrar. Domain Tools can be considered as a 3rd party because there is no reference of them when we register a domain. Apart from that, even they collect the data, they still cannot sell it under the privacy act. I mean no one has authorised them to collect the data and then sell it. If you all guys get my point (may be I am not able to explain properly) Domain Tools is doing all that at their own level. There's got to be some way to stop them.
Alok, I certainly understand your concern about this. But a couple of things: 1. What you posted is pretty much a registrar's WHOIS policy, which actually and mainly guards against, say, automated mass-harvesting attack. The way DomainTools works isn't exactly intended to do a mass-harvest of WHOIS info from a registrar, but a normal WHOIS query upon using their own WHOIS tool and then storing their own copy in their own database. 2. Let's say I put a "don't step on my grass" sign for passers-by, but a friend I welcome with open arms inadvertently steps on it. You see that and shout to the guy, "hey, you're not supposed to step on that guy's grass!", but do you really get to decide who steps on my grass and who doesn't or interpret who my sign applies to? One could call me a hypocrite for not applying my sign to my friend. But don't I solely decide that, or a registrar deciding only for themselves if DomainTools is possibly violating their WHOIS policy? It so happens none of the registrars so far are interested in suing DomainTools for this. One reason, perhaps, is DomainTools is a registrar amongst them.
Actually what I mean to say is that Domain Tools can show the whois query for the domain, which is absolutely normal. But they shouldn't be selling the registrant history. That's what my point is. I think so far no one has paid any attention to it but I think it should be discussed at higher levels like ICANN or with some experts.
You would have to 1) find the part in your Registration Agreement that is being violated or 2) get ICANN to change their policies. http://www.enom.com/terms/agreement.asp http://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/legal_agreements/show_doc.asp?pageid=REG_SA