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Discussion in 'AdSense' started by Critters, May 26, 2005.

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  1. LadyHoldem

    LadyHoldem Well-Known Member

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    #1201
    Thank you not only for the information.. but the time it took to provide it! I've been really struggling with CTR lately, and am going to give this a try! Thanx to the original poster as well!

    This is info that many people wouldn't have shared, more people tend to keep these lil 'hints' to themselves in hopes that noone finds out lol..

    Big thumbs up, and my teeny bit of rep to you :)
    SEMrush
    Cathy
     
    LadyHoldem, Oct 28, 2006 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Chopster

    Chopster Peon

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    #1202
    That's fine. Give it a try. All I can say is good luck that The Adsense Team doesn't come across your site and ask you to remove the adsl Which the chances are that they will.
     
    Chopster, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  3. LadyHoldem

    LadyHoldem Well-Known Member

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    #1203
    yeah yeah.. I wasn't to the end of the thread yet, I tend to do that from time to time.. I get excited lol... burst my bubble on about page three :p
     
    LadyHoldem, Oct 28, 2006 IP
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  4. Juan G

    Juan G Peon

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    #1204
    Some of the recent posts on this thread (Oct 24th, 26th, today):

    (sigh...)

    I know this is a very long thread but, please, don't just quickly look at the outdated first post like for example you and most people seem to do. Please check the current guidelines as said to many publishers like us by Support, or check them directly from Support, to prevent running into trouble. (At least, LadyHoldem has read a bit more later; well done).

    All right, here it is, yet another update:

    As said, surely a barely visible light grey line is not enough for a clearly visible differentiation. But I cannot see the images in your caches. If it's possible, a screenshot would be very useful for all.

    About the guidelines received by many publishers, after a very short initial tolerance around last year's spring when this thread appeared, AdSense Support has required for a long time (since last year's summer) a visible distinction between ads and images (border, or rectangle, or different background color, etc.). When this is the case, publishers have received an OK, also recently.

    When part of the publishers get warnings (this month of October for instance) from Support to remove images, and we see their recent caches, it's always the same, a close integration between ads and images, in most cases similar to the well-know first post of this thread (old and lamentably lacking an update note). That is, without the clearly visible differentiation required in Google's guidelines.

    BTW, the first page of this thread is #2 on Google search results for the popular query CTR AdSense. No wonder it has over 133,000 views now.
     
    Juan G, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  5. Juan G

    Juan G Peon

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    #1205
    Yes, indeed conversion rate is one of the reasons for their guidelines of clearly visible distinction between ads and images, in order to avoid confusing users. Like Support has been saying for over a year now:

    As said before, it's a fact that some publishers have reported being smartpriced after using an image technique for a while and, like most publishers, without the visible differentiation required by Support. Others say to be doing well even without borders, maybe because of the nature of the images used (on-topic but general, not product-specific), but anyway they should correct ASAP their designs to be within the guidelines.

    On the other hand, for example in our case, when strictly following the guidelines received from Support of visible distinction between ads and nearby site images (BTW, appropriate images that are fine for our sites even without ads), there has been no smartpricing for over a year now, with similar or even better EPC in our case, etc. That is to say, conversions are excellent if we avoid confusing users.

    In fact, as mentioned previously, if both Google and Yahoo are testing experimental ad units with images near text ads, this is a sign that many people consider the image technique a potentially significant advance for online advertising, in order to solve its main obstacle, ad blindness.

    That is, implementing it in a correct way without confusing users, the areas near site images show a clearly reduced ad blindness and increased ad reading. And -done properly- exactly in the same correct way of widely accepted techniques like placing ads above the fold and near the site content (see Google's heat map, also for forums and blogs, for example).

    It's really a pity that there has been so much confusion spreading over the net, and being the main source this thread's outdated first post. Hopefully, Critters is probably preparing something to help clear this mess, I guess. ;)
     
    Juan G, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  6. Mong

    Mong ↓↘→ horsePower

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    #1206
    Images are still absolutely okay if you are not doing over with images. :)
     
    Mong, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  7. Chopster

    Chopster Peon

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    #1207
    Light grey, dark grey, black, it doesn't matter. Just ask Fryman from this thread:

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=165274&page=2

    He had a thick black border and was asked to remove the images.

    Google's cracking down and I think it's just a matter of time before the whole image/ad issue becomes an integral part of the official TOS.
     
    Chopster, Oct 28, 2006 IP
  8. Juan G

    Juan G Peon

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    #1208
    What Fryman says is quite surprising. He doesn't give many details, only a one-phrase post. It would be important to know more, for example what the AdSense rep said exactly, and the date when that happened: this month or before?

    If it was before, there are many examples of publishers receiving the OK for correct designs, and that would mean a too strict AdSense rep for Fryman. If on the contrary it has been this month and the rep literally said no to any image near the ads, even with a clear differentiation, then there would be a possible new tendency, as an exaggerated reaction to the current situation of most publishers unaware of the guidelines.

    If Fryman can confirm a recent date and a clear text from the rep, then it would be important. It's also the first case I've heard of a compliant design beign rejected, with a clearly visible differentiation between ads and images.

    We will need to wait a little for more cases that confirm or not this one, since we have to take into accout the general tendency, not only one case that can be due just to a too strict rep. That is, a case different from many others. And until now, the general tendency has been much more reasonable.

    Until now, asking if site images near ads are correct is exactly like asking if site texts near ads are correct. We cannot have some blank centimeters around the ads, without any site texts and images. It would be absurd indeed. On the contrary, AdSense Support (heat maps, etc.) have been advising to place ads next to the site content.

    Of course, with enough differentiation to prevent confusing users. See for example the Google search result pages with ads on the right and above, with a line and space, or a different background color.

    So, it just depends. The images and the texts appear to be part of the ads, or closely united to the ads? That is, for example texts like "our sponsors" or the very unethical "please click on the ads", or images without a clear distinction like a visible border, or misleading images like arrows pointing to ads, etc. In these cases, of course those texts and images are not correct. In other cases of normal site images and texts with a clear differentialtion, they are correct, at least until now. We have to wait for more info.

    So far, this has been a case per case matter, with a great variety of different situations. Recently, they have been saying OK to correct designs, and asking to remove images to those not compliant. For example, Chopster, remember what Support has said recently applied to your specific case, when you had that light grey line for some months and didn't ask in advance:

    We would need a screenshot or link, because in your case we don't have a cache.

    Time and time again, people has written on various forums about their designs being rejected, and about that meaning all images near ads are not OK. Then, when we see their recent caches (Google, etc.), there is always a clear violation of the guidelines, naturally because -as said many times- most people just follow this thread's very old first post, now famous. Fryman's would be the first different case, if confirmed.
     
    Juan G, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  9. Chopster

    Chopster Peon

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    #1209
    Send a PM to Fryman and ask him for the dilly-o.

    I admit from the beginning that the border separating my images was a thin grey 1px border, so I understand them asking them to remove the images. I fucked up and should have maybe made it darker or something.

    However, after Google made me remove the images, then I call the YPN rep who tells me "No images, no matter how thick the border".

    I don't know. It just seems like they are all cracking down on the images/ads issue and sooner or later, it'll be a no-no on the TOS for both PPC companies.

    Note: Please keep in mind, this involves the use of small thumbnail images that correlate to the adsense ad. Images the relate to your website were not an issue with either ADS or YPN.
     
    Chopster, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  10. kaethy

    kaethy Guest

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    #1210
    How can the images relate to the website but not the Adsense since the Adsense relates to the website?

    Not trying to be a smart aleck, but I'm confused.

     
    kaethy, Oct 29, 2006 IP
  11. Chopster

    Chopster Peon

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    #1211
    The whole point is that Google doesn't want the user looking at the thumbnail image and thinking that it is directly related to the adsense text to the left, right, top, or bottom of the thumbnail image

    This is a deception and the visitor who clicks the ad under false pretenses soon realizes that the resulting page is not what they are interested in. This then ultimately causes lower conversion rates for the Adwords advertiser.

    So in the end:

    Lower Conversion Rates = Less Adwords Advertisers = The End of Google Adsense

     
    Chopster, Oct 31, 2006 IP
  12. Juan G

    Juan G Peon

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    #1212
    About conversions, AdSense manages the matter fine, don't worry. That's why smart pricing is in place. You know, when conversions are poor, smart pricing reduces the EPC, and it's also noticeable that quality ads are redirected to other better converting sites. So, AdSense/AdWords is a really good system for advertisers, with a great future.

    Google can quite accurately see which sites are sending -or not- targeted, converting traffic. Conversions are partially tracked by the optional AdWords conversion tracking for advertisers, and partially estimated with algorithmic models from the immense amounts of data available to Google.

    The topic of ads near site images is part of that of ads near site content (Google heat maps, etc.). We have seen a variety of different cases of image implementations. There are testimonials from smartpriced publishers -of course with low conversions caused by user confusion from wrong designs, wrong images, etc.- and, on the other hand, from publishers with a great EPC -also in the long term- and therefore conversions.

    For example, in our case, about three years using AdSense, with over a year following carefully the image guidelines received from Support, and, while preventing any user confusion, reducing ad blindness and increasing ad reading, with excellent results.

    Good design within the guidelines = Good conversion rate = Good EPC = The AdSense system works fine :)
     
    Juan G, Oct 31, 2006 IP
  13. h4nh4n

    h4nh4n Peon

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    #1213
    yahooo... I earned over $20 yesterday :D:D:D
     
    h4nh4n, Nov 1, 2006 IP
  14. rampante

    rampante Member

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    #1214
    Great post! Well done! But strange site?! :)
     
    rampante, Nov 2, 2006 IP
  15. atomique

    atomique Peon

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    #1215
    atomique, Nov 5, 2006 IP
  16. Juan G

    Juan G Peon

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    #1216
    I think it's an interesting design, but I'm not sure if there is enough or not enough differentiation with the site content (image and text). Naturally, in all doubtful cases we should ask Support directly.
     
    Juan G, Nov 5, 2006 IP
  17. MTbiker

    MTbiker Well-Known Member

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    #1217
    MTbiker, Nov 5, 2006 IP
  18. jabier

    jabier Peon

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    #1218
    H4nH4n,

    I am very sure that the images above the Ads (the second one) is violating the TOS. Have you got mail from Google ?

    Anyway, nice earning :)
     
    jabier, Nov 6, 2006 IP
  19. h4nh4n

    h4nh4n Peon

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    #1219
    Which website are you talking about? I have confirmed all my websites to the team adsense, and they all fine and not againts TOS.
     
    h4nh4n, Nov 6, 2006 IP
  20. ALIEN_Y2K

    ALIEN_Y2K Well-Known Member

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    #1220
    Its good idea that one with the pigs :D
     
    ALIEN_Y2K, Nov 21, 2006 IP
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