Q. Do Muslims believe in the virgin birth of Jesus?

Good answer there are many. Here's one

Philip said to Jesus, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."
Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me.
The person that has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'?

This doesn't prove he is God. It does show that he said he is God.

Is this some crazy character or what ?

 

i think you just dont understand the trinity.
yes Christ was 100% man and 100% God
there is a distinction between the Father and the Son (and the Holy Sprirt)
yet they and only one God
1 in 3 and 3 in 1
sorry if you dont understand it i didnt think it was that difficult

 

I have been watching this thread for sometime now, and now I feel I must say it seems the "Pro Christian" camp is holding their ground firmly. gworld, to be honest, you are getting slaughtered by BlackCoder, as he provides facts that can be backed up and you obviously...can not. How can you believe the Christmas tree is an integral part of A Christian Christmas? That among other baseless refuted claims shows how desperate and STUPID you sound (no offense just an observation)..especially with the negative proof comment. I am an anthropology minor and we debate all the time. That's such a taboo logic deploymment.

KalvinB, although, you are "winning" the debate with Ahmad_Malik, you are fundamentally flawed. You can not use the bible as a power of argument. That's like me trying to point out flaws in Christianity by using the Quran (which obviously you don't believe in), so it isn't a source of truth for Ahmad. Battles like this can only be won with logic. and even then it's pointless...

 

No answer and instead just ignore and continue with your claims that you are right. Why is it 2 different religion, except you claim so?

Again a claim without anything to back it up. How many other religion used sharing the bread and wine as the symbol of the body and blod?

It shows the sharing ideas and tradition and how Christian culture is influenced by it's past mythology.

In this case you must agree that there is no record about the date of birth of this supposed Jesus. A religion based on a non existent prophet and book written by unknown supporter of mythology.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.



What about the splitting of time from B.C. to A.C. as circumstantial proof ?

You think some wise guys just got together and foisted a calendar on people based on a imaginary non existent person ?

 

I'm not. In the Koran, Muhammad makes an argument against Jewish and Christian beliefs. By pointing out what they believed it is shown that Muhammad's argument begs an entirely different question that he never addresses thereby making his argument nonsensical.

It is also accused that the Bible does not say that Jesus was crucified. Obviously it's then necessary to use the Bible to show what the Bible says.

Even an atheist would have the sense to say to someone "no, the Bible clearly states that Jesus was crucified" if someone were to argue otherwise. You can't criticize something for being something that it isn't.

I don't reject Islam because of the Bible. I reject Islam because of the Koran. Muhammad wasn't smart enough to form a coherent argument and that reveals a lot.

The Bible also addresses other religions. The difference being that the Bible actually gets their beliefs correct before trying to contrast them or point out a contradiction ("why do they baptize the dead if they reject the resurrection?"). Where there people who baptized the dead who didn't believe in the resurrection of the dead? If not, then the Bible makes no sense like the Koran. If there were, then it's a valid observation.

 

Because the Romans were polygamists and the Christians are not. Romans had their sets of Gods, and The Christians have their own. Let me put it in lay mens terms for you:

2 different sets of gods and beliefs = 2 different religions.

1. Learn how to read. I never said any other religions used that symbol to represent bread and blood. I stated that it was common throughout that time period to use bread and wine. I never specified what group used it and what they used it for.

If you want to be really anal about it. You claimed another religion, Mithraism, used bread and wine as well. SO you provided the proof yourself (unless what you said was complete BS), therefore, at least one of the following is true:

A. Your claim about Mithraism and their bread and wine was complete BS.

B. You asked me to back something up when you made a near exact same claim and didn't provide proof. Which is a double standard.


EITHER WAY, YOU CONTRADICTED YOURSELF .

Does it show influence or similarity? Show proof that Christianity is based on Mithraism.

1. Both religions were based during the same period and started out at about roughly the same time. Yet you insist Christianity borrowed from Mithraism. Could Mithraism not have borrowed from Christianity instead? You forgot that large possibility.

2. You continuously state that the Romans were influenced by the Persians and that's how they made Christianity. Christianity started in JUDEA in the MIDDLE EAST. NOT in Rome. They did not accept Christianity there for a long time. Hence, why they crucified Jesus and persecuted Christians. Again, another WRONG fact less claim.

3. A second claim is the origin of Mithraism itself. It's widely held as a theory. Not even Archaeological scholars know for sure where it was started ( yet, you, a petty webmaster seem pretty sure that it started in Persia)

If you want to check this stuff out, check the wikipedia page on Mithraism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism

"This page was last modified 10:08, 29 April 2007" If you try and edit that page to suit your argument...I'll know.

1. There is no record about the exact date of birth of William Shakespeare either. So did he not exist? So...Romeo and Juliet is a figment of our imaginations?

I can not claim christ ever existed because I have no tangible proof for it. You can not prove he never existed so why are you claiming he's non-existant? It makes more sense to say you believe he never existed.

2. For the second part had you done research and actually opened a bible, you would see most sections have a title like "The gospel according to mark", or named after the person like Joshua, Ezra, or even a group of people like the Corinthians
But I am getting used to the stream of BS that flows out of each of your posts.

As a previous user stated before, I am slaughtering you. This will probably be my last post in this thread directed towards you. Get an education and goodbye.

 

Posting in color doesn't make your BS more interesting or right.

Read the Article in wikipedia and all your BS are already answered. Just some highlights to show that you don't know what you are talking about:

1)

2) Mithra is much older than Christianity, so it was not influenced by Christianity, it was Christianity that was influenced and built on that mythology.

3) People still use bread and wine and it is even better with cheese but that was not what we are talking about, we are talking about the similarity between 2 religious tradition.

4) According by doesn't mean by that person. It is a story by an unknown story teller.

I can understand how difficult it is for you to admit to the facts about your precious religion but your desperation is quite obvious to everyone with exception of other religious minded persons like yourself.

 

Christianity is obviously influenced by and built on Judaism. From what you're saying, Judaism would have had to be influenced by and built on Mithra. Is that what you're saying?

 

....oh snap!

 

Christianity is different from Judaism and in to some extent represents the revolt of poor Jews against the upper class of their society. If you look at the custom and traditions of different religions, you will find a lot of similarities between Judaism and Islam (Muhammad was influenced by his contacts with the Jews during his travels) while Christianity differs from both.
Christianity uses the mythology of the new religion at the time, Mithra and combines it with the idea of Messiah in Judaism to represent a new alternative to Judaism and the Jewish people of that time.

 

Coincedence does not prove a conspiracy. There are many things similar between all religions, but that doesn't mean they all copied from one or any other religion.

Christianity has it's roots in Judaism, and is a reformation of it, yes, but the entire old testiment is still both a jewish and christian doctrine. Also, everything in the new testiment cannonical books tie into the old testiment prophesies and teachings without contradicting each other, rather the new testiment fullfills the law of the old testiment by God sacrificing His own son for us. Jesus continually cites references from the old testiment. The old testiment actually foretold of his coming and if you look closely it wouldn't make logical sense without the new testiment to explain a few things like how we can get into heaven without being perfect. Christianity isn't just some adaption of an unrelated religion. A bunch of very dedicated people got together and spent a lot of time on researching this to make sure they could know what to include in the cannonical Bible (what we use today) and what to exclude.

Also, more in line with the topic of this thread, if you believe in the Christian Gospels and that it was a virgin birth, and that everything he claimed was true, then it doesn't even matter because to you he is the son of God and it wouldn't matter if he borrowed ideas from anyone because those people borrowed the ideas from God in the first place.

 

I don't believe that he existed, let alone be the son of God.

Christianity is a mixed baggage of Mithra-ism and some elements of Judaism that part of the society adapted to represent their interest against the rich Jews who had the control over the society and the synagogue.
You can see a lot of stories in Bible about how this supposed Messiah criticizes the rich for making the house of pray to a market.
Christianity could not succeed as new religion, so they did the smart thing and claimed that their "Messiah" is future development of Judaism to attract the unsatisfied public.

 

That calendar is often referred to as a shortened version of BCE and CE...Before Common Era and Common Era...the BC got shortened, and then changed to Before Christ (although Christ was actually born before the year 0 as best as historians can tell)...then the CE was changed to AD, not AC...AD was After Death (although Christ died in this era)...

 

If some one says that Santa Claus or tooth fairy doesn't exist, is it a conspiracy theory?

There is no proof that a guy named Jesus who supposedly did miracles ever existed. It is not a conspiracy, it is looking at facts with open eyes.

 

If you ignore the mounds of evidence on that one (I'm not saying you have to believe he is God)...then you really are a shallow minded fool...

 

Can you show one evidence that Jesus existed?

 

As for your belief that he never existed, there is a wikipedia article dedicated just to that subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Jesus_as_myth

Though there is a small number of believers of this, it doesn't appear to be widely accepted by historians, and here are what I believe to be the key points:

"This view has not found acceptance by the historical community. Michael Grant stated that the view is derived from a lack of application of historical methods:

…if we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus' existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned."

"Judaism was a milieu to which doctrines of the deaths and rebirths of mythical gods seemed so entirely foreign that the emergence of such a fabrication from its midst is very hard to credit."

 

And this is the reason that Christianity is not based on Judaism and it is based on a mythology that accepted this doctrine, namely Mithra-ism.

Look at 12 disciples of Jesus and look at 12 zodiac signs surrounding Mithra. Look at Jesus last supper and look how identical it is to the last supper of Mithra. Look at follower of Mithra eating bread and drinking wine as the symbol of Mithra's flesh and blood and look at the same tradition in Christianity.