Q. Do Muslims believe in the virgin birth of Jesus?

You don't prove something didn't exist, you prove that something existed. Can you prove that easter bunny doesn't exist? How about you pray to easter bunny next time you are in the church?

Nice try to pass the story book as the proof that story is true but this wasn't my question. Do you know who wrote the Bible?

 

There isn't a single verse in the Bible in which Jesus says that "I am God" or "Worship me". In John he says that "I and the Father are one". But in another verse, he also says that the father, he and the followers, all are one.
He means to say we are one in purpose.

 

Please stick to the Koran ... you have no clue on the New Testament.

 

thats two different views you presented...there is a verse, I showed it to you and you still deny it...When Jesus says "I and the Father are one", what do you think it means? To everyone with common sense, it means Jesus and God are the same, therefore Jesus is God.

I want to know that verse...since you are such a scholar in the New Testament...and how do you know what Jesus "means to say?" Did he tell you personally what he meant to say? Does that mean you listen to Jesus?

 

In what reality is that even coherent? Fine then. Prove I exist.

1. I can neither prove nor disprove the existence of the easter bunny and neither can you, so I do not see where you are going with this. Yet, I can prove that a land inhabiting fish never existed as that would negate the definition of a "fish".
2. Who says I go to church? Matter of fact who says I a even a christian? I am a man simply pointing out the gaping flaws in your logic.
3. There isn't a religion that worships the easter bunny so......

Who wrote down various accounts of what happened around the world? Same answer, various people. Do you know who wrote down the accounts at pompei? No, but a lot of people view those events as facts.

You still have yet to answer: Can you disprove god?

You are willing to take what one set of people wrote down long ago and label that as "history", and take what another group wrote as "fiction"

 

1 IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. - john 1:1 amplified bible

to answer ahmad 's question

 

When looking at a historian work, they also look at his life and motives to see how much is based on facts and how much is influenced by his opinions. Therefore, the question remains, who wrote the Bible? Was it John, Mark,.... who were supposedly apostles of Jesus or by some other people?

In regard to your question that I should prove that God or Jesus didn't exist, I don't have enough time to teach you logic but here is a start, so you can read and learn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

 

Er it's like all like "regular" history. There isn't a being that writes down all of a particular's group history for all eternity. Each person contributes what they can. That's why there are certain parts of the bible according to Mark, Luke, John etc,... and some are just letters recounting events. Did only onbe person right down German history from the early goth periods hundreds of years ago, through the world wars, all the way through until today????

Umm.,.. You do realize that your argument was based solely on that "negative proof" which is actually more commonly known as a logical fallacy labeled "false dilemma".

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/false-dilemma.html

"X is true because there is no proof that X is false."

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You are the one that stated god doesn't exist because he can't be proven. You even asked people to prove he exists, but when the same was asked of you you pulled this "negative proof BS" That's a logical error (which is what I stated in my first post. That's the reason I posted in this thread to begin with).

I merely stated god can't be proven or disproven. That's all.

 

The "negative proof" argument is an excuse to remove one's brain from the discussion.

Rather than going out and looking for God, some would rather play the "negative proof" card and assume God doesn't exist until someone they deem credible (anyone who doesn't belive God exists) tells them that God exists or God himself does something (that they accept God did) to prove he exists.

So, what would God have to do to prove to you that he exists? He's convinced a lot of people. What would it take for him to convince you?

He sent prophets, you killed them. He sent his son. You killed him. He sent his book. You burned it.

So what's it going to take?

 

Judgement day?

 

Don't be lazy now, you won't get any virgins in heaven for using acronyms.

 

he won't get any anyway...the word translates to "raisins" or "white grapes"....sucks to blow yourself up so you can get a bunch of grapes.

 

Your desperation in trying to avoid answering the question is quite obvious. The answer is that Bible was not written by Apostles, it was by more or less unknown writers that made up stories about a new type of mythology which was growing in the Roman empire at that time.

Let's look at the whole picture now. A religion based on Persian mythology with a supposed prophet that there is no proof of his existence and set of teachings in a book that is written by some unknown and different supporter of this mythology.

 

You can google the debate "Was Jesus really crucified" between Paster Ruknuddin Henry Pio and Dr Zakir Naik in which Dr Zakir proved from the Bible, givig references, that Jesus was not crucified and the Paster could do nothing about it. The Paster even refused to answer certain question from the audience while Dr Zakir answered each one of them.

 

Ahmad,

Have you stopped beating your wife?

The word "crucified" appears in the Bible 37 times in the New Testament

So how do you say that according to the Bible, Jesus was not crucified?

What questions were those?

And frankly, with that kind of idiotic premis, I don't blame him. It's like having a Muslim denying the holocaust and then wondering why the Jew they're debating with doesn't respond. It's impossible to respond because the question is based on false premises and therefore has nothing to do with anything.

Some things are just too stupid to respond to.

Like Muhammad claiming Jews and Christians are not the children of God because they're human.

That level of stupid. That argument is impossible to respond to because it's so idiotic on so many levels. The actual question that has to be asked and answered before that argument can even be made is "is it possible to be human and a child of God." Even Muslims on this forum agree that it is.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/tacitus.html

Tacitus was a secular historian with a disdain for Christians and recorded that Christ was crucified by Pilate.

 

Who were THEM who decided to kill this supposed prophet?

 

I love how after I refute your claims point by point, you quote less and less of my posts.

You asked: "Who wrote the bible?"
I already told you in my previous post that the bible was written by a number of people. Yet, you're claiming that I never answered the question... What more do you want? That's a straight forward answer. Who says the writers made up stories? Do you have any substantiated facts to back this claim ? If not, stop making baseless statements with no evidence. since there was no print, how do you think news and stories got passed along as well as history? Word of Mouth. Which is how many people came to know about Jesus over a period of time. That's how Homer's "The Odysey" became popular

Wherre did you read about Jesus being based on "Perisan Mythology"? The height of the Perisan empire and their influence was hundreds of years from the height of the Roman empire. They were crumbling while rome was expanding. You claimed the Romans based their calender on the persian calender which was incorrect and you presented no proof.

 

Mithra was God of light in Persian mythology and later was adopted by Romans as God of sun. If you study this mythology, you will find a lot of similarities to Christianity. Why? Because it is the same religion that was adapted by the opposition to Roman empire and formed the bases of present day Christianity.

Do you know about the wine being the symbol of Christ blood and bread the body of Christ, that is direct adaptation from customs of Mithra worshiper.

Would you like to know where the Christmas tree comes from?
Look at Ancient Persian decorating evergreen tree called SARVE, symbolically wrapped in colorful silk and offering for Mithra in the hopes that their prayer will be answered.

Guess what is the official birthday of Mithra? Do you want a hint, 25th of December. Happy celebrating birth of Mithra on 25th of December.

 

You are taken Roman "Mythology" and Christianity and mushing them together as one religion. What the Romans believed in and what Christians believe in are 2 different religions! You might as well have said the Buddhism and Hinduism are the same because they co-existed in the same area.

Bread and wine was a common symbol used throughout that time period.

Sorry, you are highly mistaken. The Christmas tree is not part of Christianity. That is a commercial product of christmas filled with propaganda and it has no religous reference). Just like the Easter bunny, and hamburgers on the 4th of july (which had nothing to do with American Independence).

Actually the date of Christ was originally celebrated on January 6th. It was moved to the 25th of December later to specifically squash said holiday. There have also been a debate that he may have been born in October/November

A date in which something actually happens and the date in which it is celebrated are completely different things.

Take for example here in America MLK day. He was born on the 15th of January, but to make it more convenient, it is now celebrated every 3rd week of January.

And why do you keep insisting that I am a christian? Who says I celebrate anything on the 25th?

 

What are you talking about? The Bible has several references that protray Jesus' crucifixion. Have you yourself ever read that Bible? Because every claim you make about it is wrong...