1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

Protection against PR-Cheaters

Discussion in 'Co-op Advertising Network' started by aPRentice, Apr 25, 2005.

0
Page 2 of 4
  1. T0PS3O

    T0PS3O Feel Good PLC

    Messages:
    13,219
    Likes Received:
    777
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #21
    Shawn says all of the site: command results will show pages from the redirect target casino site. The validator will go there bacause it randomly picks a page from the API's site: results for emuvortex. If indeed it serves up a camino page it won't find an ad hence not validate.

    BUT.

    Looking in Google myself with site: emuvortex I get real pages from their own returned WITH the ads so they WILL validate.
     
    T0PS3O, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  2. fryman

    fryman Kiss my rep

    Messages:
    9,604
    Likes Received:
    777
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    370
    #22
    how the heck did they manage to pull this off?
     
    fryman, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  3. john_loch

    john_loch Rodent Slayer

    Messages:
    1,294
    Likes Received:
    66
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    138
    #23
    That would hold true were it not for the disparity between index and PR updates.. ? :)

    (to elaborate - 1.redirect 2.once toolbar updates, remove redirect restoring index to local pages 3.High PR retained until next toolbar update, with several index updates in between. Of course the site fails to validate for the period between tb update and next index update, but that still leaves three mths of inflated weight.)

    Cheers,

    JL
     
    john_loch, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  4. aPRentice

    aPRentice Active Member

    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    1
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    73
    #24
    Yes Yes - all that was boiling in my head but you put it on the paper first :D

    So - with that PR stunt they trick:
    1. CoOp partner sites
    2. Link exchange partners who don't kow about this PR trick

    In case you need PR10 - can get it here http://www.pr10.darkseoteam.com/ and SuperSize your Weight untill this is fixed.
     
    aPRentice, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  5. fryman

    fryman Kiss my rep

    Messages:
    9,604
    Likes Received:
    777
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    370
    #25
    Isn't that what I just said a couplefew of posts ago???
     
    fryman, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  6. john_loch

    john_loch Rodent Slayer

    Messages:
    1,294
    Likes Received:
    66
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    138
    #26
    Yes you did.. I went into more detail to demonstrate how a site: command would fail to find the problem :)

    Cheers,

    JL
     
    john_loch, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  7. fryman

    fryman Kiss my rep

    Messages:
    9,604
    Likes Received:
    777
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    370
    #27
    So, will this thing get booted out of the network?
     
    fryman, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  8. joncom11

    joncom11 Peon

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #28
    Allow me to comment if I may...

    I am the owner of the domain you accuse of cheating. I've read through this entire topic and am somewhat baffled at how this has happened. A friend of mine stumbled across this thread and notified me of its accusations. While the threads accusations seem to be true, I do not understand how...

    Until this event, I have not even heard of CaminoBrowser. I am the only one that makes any changes to the sites php files, and I'm positive that I've never set up any sort of redirect like this.

    Someone in the thread mentioned a plugin for Firefox that allows you to fake a GoogleBot agent? Would you mind pointing me in that direction?
     
    joncom11, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  9. T0PS3O

    T0PS3O Feel Good PLC

    Messages:
    13,219
    Likes Received:
    777
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #29
    T0PS3O, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  10. aPRentice

    aPRentice Active Member

    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    1
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    73
    #30
    joncom11

    So you are saying you NEVER redirected to CaminoBrowser?
    So what can you say about google cash of emuvortex???

    http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:http://www.emuvortex.net/
    and if it was an error - how did it happen twice - same on your Forum
    http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:http://forum.emuvortex.net

    ----

    But who am I to judge.
    The question is - does a site like that stay in the CoOp for the next 3 month untill the next GTPR update AND benefits from the fake PR (whatever way it got it)
     
    aPRentice, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  11. joncom11

    joncom11 Peon

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #31
    I'm NOT affiliated with them in any way. I do not understand why my domain is showing this. If you search google for emuvortex, www.emuvortex.net will be the first result, and the cache will show my site... however, if you type in cache:www.emuvortex.net in google... It will show a Camino site. Now, I don't know what the difference between those two methods are, but one IS definately showing a site that is not mine.

    Now, checking my weight in the Co-op program, I have a weight of roughly 40,000 which is right about on par (within 1000) of what it was when I first signed up months ago. This event doesn't seem to have any influence on my weight (unless it was up the whole time?)... However, I'm still confused as to why this site is being displayed under my domain at all.

    Any ideas?
     
    joncom11, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  12. fryman

    fryman Kiss my rep

    Messages:
    9,604
    Likes Received:
    777
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    370
    #32
    Sure, sure... everyone is always innocent...

    How can your site have a fake PR thanks to redirects and you don't even know about it?

    Sure...sure...
     
    fryman, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  13. joncom11

    joncom11 Peon

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #33
    The fact that it shows on my forum's cache as well has complicated things even more. My forum is 100% un-altered besides the hack I needed to get the Co-op ads to display. The only thing I can think of that could alter that, would be .htaccess in a parent folder, however I'm positive there is nothing of this nature in any .htaccess file I'm aware of.

    I'm well aware of how this looks, and frankly I don't care whether you believe me. What I would like to know is why, and how this it happening...
     
    joncom11, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  14. noppid

    noppid gunnin' for the quota

    Messages:
    4,246
    Likes Received:
    232
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    135
    #34
    Did he ever hire a so called SEO guy? I have witnessed some pretty underhanded things myself.
     
    noppid, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  15. joncom11

    joncom11 Peon

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #35
    I have 2 other site admins, however I should be the only one really doing much editting to the site. They run other things.

    A quick note... I do not know if this would make any difference at ALL, but we do not set our DNS nameservers to match our host. One of the other admins just sets up the record by IP to direct to our account. This is to save time switching hosts so we don't have to always change nameservers... Yes? No?

    I'm shooting blind here...
     
    joncom11, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  16. noppid

    noppid gunnin' for the quota

    Messages:
    4,246
    Likes Received:
    232
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    135
    #36
    Don't take this the wrong way, but how well do you know this "help"?

    You made a point of saying only "you" manage the site and "should/would" know. It's apparent that even you DON'T "know".

    I would really look into this and get all the questions answered.
     
    noppid, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  17. aPRentice

    aPRentice Active Member

    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    1
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    73
    #37
    I think we are wondering of the initial subject. I don't think WE have to care HOW they made this PR cheat (PHP / .htaccess / robots.txt) – joncom11 has to find that out as it is his problem and could cause him more trouble with G in the long run. In my view what is important for as is:

    :confused: after we see for a fact that a site has a fake PR - does it stay in Co-op and all the rest of the users suffer until the next Google update that will most likely be ~100 days from now. (Even if they fixed what was wrong they still benefit from this for a 3+ month - so how can a webmaster that doesn't cheat feel...)

    :confused: is there anything being done to protect co-op from future attempts by "unknowing" webmasters to Super Size their PR and gain extra Weight.

    :confused: Is a cheat that passes validation considered OK
    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=155237&postcount=23
     
    aPRentice, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  18. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

    Messages:
    38,333
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    Best Answers:
    462
    Trophy Points:
    710
    Digital Goods:
    29
    #38
    Yes, if someone were to cheat, they would be bumped out of the ad network, why would anyone think otherwise?
     
    digitalpoint, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  19. aPRentice

    aPRentice Active Member

    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    1
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    73
    #39
    Looking at this example with www.emuvortex.net
    http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:http://www.emuvortex.net/

    1. Webmaster complains that his weight is too low
    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=11025
    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=11839

    2. After that (he claims he doesn't know how) his PageRank rises to PR8 using a temp 301 redirect cheat.

    3. He is still part of the Co-op and his PR will stay like that for a long time

    now tell me if I am wrong - this suggest that to compeat another webmaster should make a fake PR10 site and join the network...
     
    aPRentice, Apr 25, 2005 IP
  20. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

    Messages:
    38,333
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    Best Answers:
    462
    Trophy Points:
    710
    Digital Goods:
    29
    #40
    The co-op is a bit smarter than that... the site in question has never registered (even now) higher than a PR3 as far as the co-op is concerned.

    If you want to make a fake PR10, you are welcome to... and you will be banned.
     
    digitalpoint, Apr 25, 2005 IP
Page 2 of 4