Protecting against fraudulent fraud reports...

Discussion in 'Payment Processing' started by kansieo, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. #1
    So I built my WP plugin and decided I wanted to sell it. Great.

    I've been over at that other big marketing forum where it was selling well (probably could have been better had I known how to write a proper sales letter...). No unhappy customers that I'm aware of...and I'm very responsive to support questions.

    Recently, a copy of the plugin was posted at one of the larger script sharing websites. No biggie, I just disabled the account attached to the software.

    More recently, I've been getting fraud reports through PayPal. PayPal doesn't actually tell me anything--they just say they're reviewing the transaction. So I disable the account attached to that transaction and all is good.

    I've seen people do this with ebooks and clickbank--buy an ebook and then ask for a refund a short time later so they essentially get a free ebook.

    My question is, though, is there any good way to stop these people? They aren't getting free software from me...it's just a pain to not know when PayPal is going to next hold a payment.

    If PayPal wasn't so handy to have (most people would rather give an email address than a credit card!), I'd drop them in an instant.

    (I think I've pretty much answered my own question...chalk PayPal fraud up as just another cost of doing business.)
     
    kansieo, Feb 12, 2008 IP
  2. daedal

    daedal Peon

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    #2
    There is no good way apart from dropping Paypal. The problem is with Paypal rather than anything else. If you had the same problem with 2checkout, Google Checkout etc they would not automatically assume the buyer is right, they will work for you as the seller more than the buyer.

    If you are dealing with Paypal you have to deal with the loses, there is no simple solution.
     
    daedal, Feb 12, 2008 IP
  3. Pervert-For-Life

    Pervert-For-Life Banned

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    #3
    yes there is a way to stop those peoples from refunding the money from you.... i am writing a small documents similar to ebook to stop refund, reversal and chargeback.... i will have it out on sale at ebay soon next week...
     
    Pervert-For-Life, Feb 12, 2008 IP
  4. daedal

    daedal Peon

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    #4
    There are loads of so called ways that stop people, and suprisingly you have to pay to get the information ;) It is always the same advice : Make sure they use a verified paypal account, don't accept payments in certain currencies, don't accept payments from certain people. Get people's ages when they sign up to the shopping cart and don't sell to people that tick a certain age range, etc etc etc

    There is no way, and books and guides are just another way to get people to waste their hard earned cash. Especially ebay guides, 99% of them are copies or contain useless information.

    Information on fraud prevention, chargebacks etc is free and available from paypal, your bank and many other sources.
     
    daedal, Feb 12, 2008 IP
  5. Pervert-For-Life

    Pervert-For-Life Banned

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    #5
    all that your saying is useless.... i have tired that before but its impossible to determine what the customer will do after sometime... and all the free info out there dont work and are useless.... there is no way you can stop a chargeback....
     
    Pervert-For-Life, Feb 12, 2008 IP
  6. daedal

    daedal Peon

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    #6
    lol

    You should read my post carefully, I know its does not work. As in my very first post. I said : "There is no good way apart from dropping Paypal. The problem is with Paypal rather than anything else. If you had the same problem with 2checkout, Google Checkout etc they would not automatically assume the buyer is right, they will work for you as the seller more than the buyer."
     
    daedal, Feb 12, 2008 IP
  7. kansieo

    kansieo Peon

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    #7
    Just out of curiosity, and maybe this isn't the proper place to post this buuuut:

    Given that PayPal automatically sides with the buyer, how do other payment processors deal with the same thing?

    I'm trying to figure out a workable solution to moving elsewhere while alienating as few potential customers as possible. The last thing I need is a closed or limited PayPal account because they feel I'm dealing with too many unsavory types. :D
     
    kansieo, Feb 12, 2008 IP
  8. hav0c

    hav0c Notable Member

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    #8
    Depending on the situation, PayPal doesn't "automatically side with the buyer". If there was a disputed charge placed with the credit card company, then there's no choice on PayPal's side. If the seller doesn't have proof of shipment then that's another instance.
     
    hav0c, Feb 12, 2008 IP
    Pervert-For-Life likes this.
  9. Pervert-For-Life

    Pervert-For-Life Banned

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    #9
    i read that part as well.... but the problem is if i drop paypal then i drop sale because 99% customers prefer paypal.... so if i use moneybookres or epassport then i hardly get any sale.... but if i use paypal, then i get good sale.... so what will you suggest in this case please advice... do you know there are stubborn buyers at ebay who refuse to pay on any other payment processing service other then paypal because if something goes wrong they can refund there money.... so what will you do in this case? maybe you will tell the customer to drive through.... but some sellers hardly get any customer and so they cant afford to lose the customer.....
     
    Pervert-For-Life, Feb 13, 2008 IP
  10. daedal

    daedal Peon

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    #10
    Just an example of how Paypal acts : I used to process a few hundred transactions a week, many through Paypal, we all know post can get lost, but I could always provide proof that the item was posted. In the 4 cases in the month before I chose to stop accepting Paypal they found in favour of the buyer, even though I had stamped and signed proof of postage.

    As for other payment processors, Google have never reversed a transaction where I can provide proof, 2checkout has never reversed a transation and neither have moneybookers.

    I advise people that currently use Paypal, not to just drop them but to offer a number of payment options, people are often suprised at how many will have and use other options.

    There are so many other payment processors out there and they all work. The reason paypal is so widely used is because it is so easy to scam it. As a seller you have no choice to accept a certain number of credit card transactions.
     
    daedal, Feb 13, 2008 IP
  11. daedal

    daedal Peon

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    #11
    I have never said you should drop Paypal, only that the only way to stop lots of chargebacks etc was to drop Paypal.

    If you find the majority of your customers pay by paypal, that does not mean other customers won't use another form of payment.

    All business should offer more forms of payments, because by only offering paypal you are stopping the millions of other people on the internet from buying your items.

    Paypal should never be the only option people accept it should be one of them.

    Scammers love Paypal Buyer Protection, so a scammer will automatically purchase from a Paypal seller, they are not going to send you a cheque, they are not going to use Google etc.
     
    daedal, Feb 13, 2008 IP
  12. microsites

    microsites Peon

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    #12
    wow excellent post paypal sucks in many areas .. still the kids here love paypal (most have 4000 posts and talk like noobs .. webkidsforum :D)

    i will email ur post to paypal now and phone call ;)
     
    microsites, Feb 13, 2008 IP
  13. kansieo

    kansieo Peon

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    #13
    Thanks daedal, you've been a big help. I guess I have some decisions to make... my problem now is that the IPN code I'm using has been so heavily customized to my unique download system that it'll be near impossible to convert to something else without revamping everything. I may just choose to eat the losses until they become crippling!

    Thanks again.
     
    kansieo, Feb 14, 2008 IP