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Proof the Judeo-Christian Bible Inspired of God

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Alter2Ego, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. #1
    ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

    There are various types of religions in existence with their own sacred books called bibles. The difference between the Judeo-Christian Bible and other religious books is that there is EVIDENCE showing the Judeo-Christian Bible was inspired by Almighty God. For instance, the Bible contains almost 2,000 accurately fulfilled prophesies, some written centuries before the fulfillment of the prophesied events. Secular history and archeology bears this out. In addition, Bible writers had information that was not discovered by scientists and explorers until centuries later. Below are two such examples.


    Example #1:
    For a period of time in history, humans thought the earth was flat and that if one sailed too far out to sea, one was likely to sail off the earth. By the 15th Century when Christopher Columbus claimed he discovered the new world, most Europeans correctly theorized that the earth is a circle or sphere. However, it was not until after the first circumnavigation of the globe was led by Ferdinand Magellan in the year 1519 that this theory of a 3-Dimensional, circular earth was proven as fact. More than 2,000 years before Ferdinand Magellan attempted to sail around the globe, the prophet Isaiah did not merely theorize but stated that the earth is a circle. Isaiah was inspired by God to write:

    "{22} There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gaze, who spread them out like a tent in which to dwell, {28} Have you not come to know or have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary. There is no searching out of his understanding." (Isaiah 40:22 and 28)

    SIDE NOTE: Circles can be 2D (flat) or 3D (an ORB or a SPHERE)



    Example #2:
    Prior to the 17th century, none of the best scientific minds could explain what causes the earth to be positioned in a stable orbit. Then in 1687, Isaac Newton published his theory that gravitational forces are the explanation behind the earth's stability. (Gravity is also the reason why humans can move around without fear of toppling off the earth into space.) More than 3,000 years before Newton's existence, under divine inspiration Moses wrote that the earth hangs upon nothing (indicating gravity), as follows:

    "He [God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, hanging the earth upon nothing;..." (Job 26:7)


    DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
    1. How could Isaiah have known that the earth is circular, considering that the writing of the book of Isaiah was completed in 732 B.C.E., and it wasn't until the 16th century AD/CE that the first person to attempt to prove the earth is a circle was Ferdinand Magellan? Magellan attempted to circumnavigate the globe in 1519 AD/CE or 2,251 years AFTER Isaiah wrote that the earth is a circle.

    http://didyouknow.org/sailing/
    http://www.rmg.co.uk/magellan


    2. How did Job know that the earth hangs upon nothing--indicating gravity--considering that the book of Job was completed in 1473 B.C.E. and it wasn't until 1687 AD/CE that Isaac Newton published his theory about gravitational forces--3,160 years AFTER Moses wrote that the earth hangs upon nothing?
    http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blnewton.htm


    3. Where did Isaiah and Moses get this info?
     
    Alter2Ego, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  2. Mikaël2

    Mikaël2 Member

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    #2
    1. The Greeks knew the earth was round. They must have been given this knowledge by God ?

    2. “The pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, and he hath set the world upon them.” 1 Samuel 2:8 -- ROFL ... earth is on pillars or it's hanging on nothing ? which is it ? HAHAHAHAHAH
     
    Mikaël2, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  3. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member

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    #3
    ALTER2EGO -to- MIKAËL:
    The Greeks didn't know the earth is round. The Greeks--particularly the philosopher Aristotle--theorized the earth is round. You do understand the meaning of the word "theory"; don't you? Without evidence to prove something, there is no way of knowing. When something is known, it amounts to a fact. When something is theorized, it is known as a group of hypotheses aka educated guesses.

    Aristotle died never knowing that it would be centuries--1,800 years later--before
    Ferdinand Magellan and others would prove the earth is spherical by literally sailing around it.


    FYI: Aristotle was born in 384 B.C.E. (the 4th century B.C.E. or about 400 years before Jesus Christ appeared on earth as a human.) The Book of Isaiah was written in the 8th century B.C.E. or 400 years before Aristotle's birth. The book of Job in which Moses wrote that the earth hangs upon nothing was written in the 15th century B.C.E. or 1,100 years before Aristotle's birth.


    I will deal with Point #2 of your erroneous post at another time. I hope you are still laughing, because the joke is on you and I'm just getting started.
     
    Alter2Ego, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  4. pladecalvo

    pladecalvo Peon

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    #4
    Give us one!

    No it doesn't. What you do is take the archaeological evidence for something and then force your prophecy into it.

    Which...circle or sphere. It can't be both. A circle and a sphere are two entirely different shapes.

    Then your prophet was wrong wasn't he..because the Earth is not a circle it's a sphere. A 'circle' is a two dimensional shape, like a plate, which the Earth is not.

    Ummm..no they can't! Your Liars for Jesus fail miserably at Geometry.

    Sheesh.... what a vivid imagination you have!

    More to the point. How the hell did he get the shape of the Earth so wrong when the Greeks already had a damn good idea it was a sphere??
     
    pladecalvo, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  5. pladecalvo

    pladecalvo Peon

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    #5
    Good to see that you are admitting that the Bible is wrong when it says the Earth is a circle.


    Try to keep up will you. For more than 100 years now, serious scholars have been in agreement that Isaiah was written in three stages. The first is called Proto-Isaiah (chapters 1–39) and is from the 8th and 7th centuries BCE; the second, Deutero-Isaiah (chapters 40–55) is from the 6th-century BCE and the third, Trito-Isaiah (chapters 56–66) comes from the time of the alleged return from exile.
     
    pladecalvo, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  6. Mikaël2

    Mikaël2 Member

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    #6

    Oh, when the Greeks say the earth is spherical, they are simply guessing .. but when a so called prophet/saint says the earth is spherical, then it must be true ! I see how that works.

    PS: Isiah said the world is a circle ... this does not necessarily have to mean "spherical". The bible says that earth is a flat circle with edges. And it is on top of pillars. ROFL.




    The earth does not hang on nothing. Where did you even get this nonsense ?
     
    Mikaël2, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  7. Bushranger

    Bushranger Notable Member

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    #7
    @Alter2Ego - This post was self-censored by Bushranger. You should try that some time (soon).
     
    Bushranger, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  8. GMF

    GMF Well-Known Member

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    #8
    Oh my, that reminds me of a picture I recently saw

    proofgodexists.jpg

    The argument - "Because the Bible/Prophet said so"
    Is invalid and childish at best.
     
    GMF, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  9. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Spiderman DOES exist! Glad to meet a fellow believer!

    On the subject of gullibility, is there any young male (16-24 range) that can deny gullibility is a useful if not downright attractive quality in young women?
    Now imagine a building filled with gullible, attractive, sexually repressed young women, hormones raging through their veins, and you have every reason you need to visit your local Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's witnesses or Mormon tabernacle. It is like taking the spear fisher to tuna town, shooting fish in a barrel, or whatever your favorite colloquialism may be.

    I'm telling you, forget bars, forget frat parties where date rape qualifies as "hooking up", forget singles sites. The Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's witnesses is quite literally the best and easiest place on the planet to get laid, despite all the lip service they pay to morality. They will even come to you. Just express a little interest in the sales pitch, ask probing questions, and show up. With Witnesses moreso than Mormons, the church is a fairly closed society, so people flock around new comers. Your very first visit to the church you will be able to assess whether or not the action is good (and it is always good), so no big time investment involved.

    [Edit] Great and fertile grounds if you are an investment banker as well. Gullibility is a useful trait in people you would have give you their money to invest. I personally know a guy who worked for Merrill doing several million a year out of a single church by the time he was 25. He later served time in prison for fraud, but that is a different story.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
    Obamanation, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  10. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member

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    #10
    ALTER2EGO -to- MIKAËL:
    As for your partial quotation of 1 Samuel 2:8, it's an act of desperation when a person cherry picks just a few words from a verse of scripture and pretends the rest of the verse doesn't exist. You are supposed to quote the entire verse and then bold the words that you want to draw attention to. By deliberately leaving off the rest of a verse without even so much as ellipses to indicate to others that you left something off, that's an attempt to deceive while you give a meaning to the cherry-picked words that is not the intent of the rest if the verse.

    If you had bothered to quote the entire verse you would have realize it is figurative language that refers to the foundation or permanence of the earth. Below is the entire verse from two different Bibles. Keep your eyes on the words in bold print within the quotation, as I am about to make a point.


    "He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them." (1 Samuel 2:8 -- King James Version)


    "He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor. "For the foundations of the earth are the LORD's; upon them he has set the world." (1 Samuel 2:8 -- New International Version)

    Look at the context. (Context refers to the surrounding words within the verse, as well as to the surrounding verses or even surrounding chapters.) The context of the entire verse is in figurative language. Figurative language is simply used to paint a picture in one's mind; it is not literal.


    In the case of 1 Samuel 2:8, the verse is contrasting extreme disadvantage with extreme honor--none of which can be taken literally. It says the poor are raised from the dust and the needy from the ash heap or from the dung hill (positions of disadvantage). From such disadvantaged positions, they are "set among princes and inherit a throne" (positions of honor). This is figurative. At no time in the history of the Bible was anyone literally taken from the ash heap or dung hill and set among princes and inherited a throne. You can read the Bible from cover to cover and you won't find any report of this actually happening.

    Logically, since the verse begins with figurative language, common sense should have told you the rest of it is also figurative where it ends with: "for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S" (KJV) OR "For the foundations of the earth are the LORD's" (NIV). But that's what happens when people start reading words off a page and ignore context.


    Mikaël, are you still laughing? You do realize by now that the joke is on you; right? I will respond to your Post #6 at another time and give you more to laugh at in the process.

     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
    Alter2Ego, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  11. pladecalvo

    pladecalvo Peon

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    #11
    Now how ironic is THAT ....coming from someone that regularly posts quote-mines that leave out essential part of what various scientists have said. LMFAO!!!

    Oh how convenient folks! Talk about 'cherry-picking'!! When he wants it to be true, it's the literal, infallible 'Word of God', when it's obviously nonsense it's 'figurative', allegory and 'not literal'.

    I think just about every one laughs at you dude.
     
    pladecalvo, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  12. Bushranger

    Bushranger Notable Member

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    #12
    How clever would you have to be to be able to remember and quote the whole bible? It seems a pity someone would waste their life doing that. I guess some people know shakespeare just as well. Funny what we all spend our lives on isn't it, really? Some would see it as wasted when you consider the whole world's your oyster.
     
    Bushranger, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  13. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #13
    With judgement day just around the corner, why educate yourself? Better to knock on doors for Jesus! Better still, publish our material on public forums!
     
    Obamanation, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  14. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #14
    bondage_jesus.jpg

    Jesus in Heaven. :)
     
    gworld, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  15. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member

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    #15
    ALTER2EGO -to- MIKAËL:
    Below is the definition of "scientific theory" and the definition of "hypothesis." Read... it... slowly... and maybe you will get it that a theory is an educated guess and not a statement of fact.

    Definition of Scientific Theory

    "A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. Therefore, theories can be disproven. Basically, if evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, then the hypothesis can become accepted as a good explanation of a phenomenon. One definition of a theory is to say it's an accepted hypothesis."
    http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/lawtheory.htm


    Definition of Hypothesis
    A hypothesis is an educated guess, based on observation. Usually, a hypothesis can be supported or refuted through experimentation or more observation. A hypothesis can be disproven, but not proven to be true.
    http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/lawtheory.htm


    Below is a quotation from a source that repeatedly refers to Aristotle's THEORIES.

    http://www.childrensmuseum.org/cosmicquest/ancient.html


    Say, Mikaël, did you notice the word "theory" and the expression "he thought"? That amounts to educated guesses. I take it you also believe Aristotle when he theorized there's a fifth element called aether?

    More to come in response to your Post #6.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
    Alter2Ego, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  16. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #16
    For those concerned about Islam and Sharia, gere is the short list of offences, as adjudged by a committee of people within a given congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, that can cause a member to be shunned by everyone in the church including members of their own family.


    Adultery (sexual intercourse with a person other than your marriage mate), includes;
    Abandoning wife and eloping with another woman - w79 11/15 31-2, w76 p.728
    Planned adultery to break Scriptural marriage ties - w83 3/15 p.29
    Remarriage without Scriptural permission - w56 10/1 p.597
    Polygamy - jv 176
    Dating a person not legally divorced - ks91-E p.135
    Apostasy - w83 4/1 pp.22-4, km 8/80 pp.1, 4. includes;
    Rebellion against Jehovahs organization - w63 7/1
    Promoting sects - it-2 886
    Associating with disfellowshipped people including;
    Friends - ks91-E p.103, w81 9/15 pp.25-6, w55 10/1 p.607
    Family - ks91-E p.103
    Blood and blood transfusions - w61 1/15 ks91-E p.95, jv p.183-4
    Drug use - ks91-E p.96
    Drunkenness - ks91-E p.95, it-1 656
    Dishonest business practices - w63 7/1, w86 11/15 14
    Employment violating Christian principles - km 9/76 p.6, km 2/74
    Working for any religious organization - ks91-E p.95
    Working in a gambling institution - ks91-E p.136
    Selling tobacco - ks91-E p.96
    Contract work at a military establishment
    False worship. Includes;
    Attending another church ks91-E p.94
    Following mourning customs that involve false worship - w85 4/15 p.25
    Fornication it-1 863
    Bestiality - w83 6/1 p.25
    Incestuous marriage - w78 3/15 p.26
    Artificial insemination and surrogate motherhood.
    "True Christians, therefore, avoid surrogate motherhood as well as any procedures that involve the use of donated sperm, eggs, or embryos" g04 9/22;
    "Artificial insemination of a married woman by a donor other than her husband makes her guilty of adultery" g74 8/8 p.28
    sexual abuse of children - g93 10/8 p.10Reviling - ks91-E p.94, w96 7/15 pp.17-18; it-1 p.991; it-2 p.802
    Fraud - ks91-E p.94, om pp.142-3
    Gambling or related employment - w80 9/1, ks91-E p.136
    Gluttony - w86 5/1
    Greediness, this in used to include;
    gambling ks91-E p.95
    extortion ks91-E p.95, w89 1/15 22, it-1 p.789
    greed in relation to bride-price: w98 9/15 p.25
    Homosexuality - w83 6/1 pp.24-6
    Idolatry - w52 3/1 p.138
    Loose conduct - ks91-E pp.93, 96, w83 3/15 p.31, w73 9/15 p.574, it-2 p.264, ks91-E p.93, w83 3/15 p.31, w73 9/15 pp.574-6, w97 9/1 p.14, it-2 p.246.
    This includes;
    Sexual perversion
    Disregard for Jehovah's moral standards
    Disrespect, disregard or even contempt for standards, laws and authority,
    Rather than restricted to the usual definition of sexual perversion, the Watchtower defines "loose conduct" as including "disrespect to elders". This enables this term to be used to disfellowship for a wide range of offences not elsewhere covered, and as such is used to cover all manner of sins, such as refusal to cease fellowship with disfellowshipped people, or even being contemptuous in a judicial meeting where no other sin can be proven.

    Lying - ks91-E p.94, g00 2/8 p.21
    Non neutral activities (involvement in politics and the military) - ks91-E p.96
    Military service and non military service including working casual work (certain civilian work has recently been made a conscience matter w96 5/1 p.20) - ks91-E p.96
    Obscene speech - ks91-E p.95
    Parents condoning immorality - w56 p.566
    Political involvement, including voting or holding a political card in Malawi - ks91-E p.96 (w99 11/1 p.28 made voting a conscience matter)
    Porneia. Includes oral and anal sex between married couples, mutual masturbation between persons not married to each other, homosexuality, lesbianism, fornication, adultery, incest, and bestiality. - ks91-E p.93
    Slander - ks91-E p.94, w63 7/1, w89 10/15 p.14, om p.142
    Smoking or selling tobacco - km 2/74, ks91-E p.96
    Spiritism (includes yoga w02 8/1 p.22) - w55 10/1 p.607
    Stealing, thievery - om pp.142-5, ks91-E p.94
    Subversive activity - w95 10/1 p.31
    Uncleanness
    Sexually perverse practices within marriage, such as oral and anal sex - w83 3/15 p.31
    Heavy petting and breast fondling - ks91-E p.92
    Touching of sexual parts - ks91-E p.91
    Practice of viewing abhorrent Pornography - w2012 3/15 p.31
    Violation of secular law if flagrant attitude - w86 10/1 p.31
    Violence, extreme physical abuse, fits of anger - ks91-E p.96, w75 p.287, g01 11/8 p.12
    Includes Boxing w81 7/1 pp.30-1, ks91-E p.142
    Wilful non support of family, endangerment of mates spirituality - w88 11/1 pp.22-3, km 9/73 p.8, ks91-E p.95
    Worldly celebrations such as Christmas - ks91-E p.95 (It appears celebrating birthdays is not a reason to be disfellowshipped)
     
    Obamanation, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  17. NeilPearson

    NeilPearson Well-Known Member

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    #17
    I know I am
     
    NeilPearson, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  18. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #18
    DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
    1. Would Jesus encourage family members to shun other family members, or members of a community to shun other people within the community, for infractions such as masturbation, oral or anal sex with your spouse, drunkenness, or the grand daddy of them all, subversion (otherwise known in the US as freedom of speech)?

    2. If such teachings are antithetical to the the principals of "Love thy neighbor as yourself", and "Do onto others as you would want them to do on to you", would it not be more appropriate to label an organization perpetuating such non Christian values as a non-Christian organization?
     
    Obamanation, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  19. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #19


    Now I know why the Jehovah witness girls refused to be good Christians and give a helping hand or mouth. :)
     
    gworld, Aug 17, 2012 IP
  20. pladecalvo

    pladecalvo Peon

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    #20
    Well, well!! Good to know that, at last. A2E has finally accepted that the scientific theory of Evolution is supported with REPEATED TESTING.
     
    pladecalvo, Aug 17, 2012 IP