Programming ethics debate

Well Erect ( Irony?? --seems always erect) -- if you know so much --and if you are a coder --why don't you do it? If you have the guts and if you are that qualified --just do something extraordiany --that would make people respect you --and come to you--and you will have same fan following as an0n has!

You can be as succesful as an0n if you really have some genuine/unique ideas so as to improve the directory industry. I'll be you first client--be sure abt that if you come along with something unique that would highly improve our industry.

Now--can you stop criticizing and start creating pls

 

You can make some thing which does the same thing as the deep links mod... but don't copy its code as such ... and moreover try and add something new to it ...

 

Yes I am always erect, thanks for noticing. Not sure our definitions are the same though.

None of my paragraph was criticizing, it was actually as close to a compliment as I give. The only criticism was about his location, I am sure I am not alone in saying that part.

I am creating, but not for you directory owners . . . for me:>

There is nothing extraordinary happening in the mod business. This is like inventing a new cord, speaker phone or number pad for the telephone, no thanks.

I opened a directory because I have recently quit my day job and need a SERP (not PR) catalyst for my upcoming site releases. And yes, I feel I do have some genuine & unique ideas that you are welcome to check out at my directory.

For example:
#1 my open cms environment for public editing / fresh content
#2 keyword links in the content that span 4 words (for non spammy links)
#3 the best directory submission feature you will find on the market. Not a crappy list of links but a full featured submission activity that keeps track of your submissions and sorts directories in many different ways.

For the above features I have received great reviews from many people including the directory critic and Free SEO list Dan. Ever get that from a mod you can purchase???

None of the above features you will find on ANY other directory or will EVER be released in a script. But since this is an ethics debate over ripping others ideas / codes I guess I just gave the programmers something to shoot for. For those of you who can't program, go whine for a mod.

I think the funniest part of this debate is that you and I are here speaking about programming ethics while yanking torrents and listening to our mp3's. Where does the line get crossed? I personally think writing original code based on something you have seen online is very gratifying and falls far short of stealing legitimately copyrighted material. But alas, we are all pirates at heart.

So please jhnrang, if you are going to take shots at me from across the globe . . . bring your A game or I will make you walk the plank again. arghhhh!

 

Agreed totally, stealing code is very un-cool. Unless it was released for this reason, which I doubt the deep links mod was.

Now a question, what is the difference between this mod and allowing (restricted) html in a textarea of a form for your link description? There are open source javascripts all over the net that you just have to include and you get something similar to the reply box you type in on this forum.

This actually seems easier than what is happening in the mod (type in links then str_replace() them) and allows for multiple links. If you don't want someone changing the color of the font or adding an image, just disable it.

Something like this would work.

Any thoughts????

 

You really have no clue do you? I guess we can place you under the misguided.

Just about every time you ask this question it is directed toward programmers who have built their own directory software from scratch. Directories that are unique and innovative!

Before you ask this question again ... go look at what this person has produced ... then just go play with iPod and the other script kiddies.

Please stop embarassing yourself. Instead of ranting and raving over something you obviously know nothing about. Look at the answers from real programmers ... virtually every one has said the same thing, "Cool idea --- go ahead and code your own".

 

Erect

My friend --you have an extra-ordinanry directory there ---so many features!

But do you think thats good? I certainly don't think so! Because --as your aim is for SERPs and not PR-- you are certainly targetting visitors from SEs. And only experts like you could get /find resources listed/provided by your directory.

Dumbs like me --will get confused as it is really difficult to navigate with so --so many features.
I hope you give a serious thought to my advice and make it less confusing. Remember -- its my type of people who are majority --and experts like you are few.

Beside --to talk about SERPs --your UNIQUE contents are not enough to put you on top. You require more than that. You might argue on this point too--but let me just inform you that --my BLOG ranks higher for many keywords than the newspaper from which I Copy+Paste articles. SERPs don't only depend on what you think it depends --you need more than that.

Cheers

 

How can you talk about ethics and copying other people's ideas when you so blatently mention you do not respect copyrights?

 

Yes, I am targeting SERPs, but not for EAD. Again, EAD is a catalyst for my other sites. I hope it can make a few bucks eventually, but that is not it's reason for being. If my directory is quality, the respect from advertisers will come. I want it to be a totally unique directory because of it's unique content and REAL INCOMING LINKS. Not the kind of links you stick in a program and get 1000's from low quality directories. That is called spam it is equally as evil as stealing code (or articles) from others.

So, that's your plan for rankings huh. Ripping articles from newspapers and then ranking high by google bombing your keyword links. Again, I wish you luck as you will need it soon. Maybe not today, or tomorrow, but soon Google will catch up. The writing is on the wall as they have got rid of whitehouse.gov in the miserable failure google bomb.

 

I'm glad to see this discussion taking place. I have expressed my views in other threads. This is important to many involved. I think the best thing I can add now is that when someone makes something worthwhile and then earns a good reputation for doing good business, people will give that person business because of the contribution they have made. And most importantly, ideas must be continually developed and improved over time. That is what makes people want to keep coming back for more.

 

Erect & YMC

I don't know what you mean by ripping --do you read their policies? Most article directories and newspaper sites have a policy -- Give everything due to who-ever deserve it and you can reproduce it -- without change ofcourse.

I just did that. I give a link to the original page source from where I published it --and more-over I write extra --from where I got it. I am giving all the credit and copyright to who deserves it.

Do you think it is ripping???? If yes-- then --I'll have to gather all the Dictionaries and Thesaurous --to understand the actual meaning of ripping.

If a programme --( as you guys are programmers) is free for use and need only credit -- does not alow changes -- I can definitely use it --. Will I be ripping then?.

You guys are really funny.

Just checked my CP and someone gave me negative Rep for this thread --I can assume who that can be ---visit my BLOG and check --it --I am not violating any copy-right because I clearly mention ( giving due credit) from whom I am getting those articles.

I am not returning the NEGATIVE REP- I am not childish like you guys ( He knows who gave it) -- don't do or talk something that you don't know

 

My two cents worth:

If you find something you like, don't just copy it, make some improvments to it and make it better, but always give credit where credit is due!! Oh and NEVER steal code, if you are going to copy something program it yourself!!



Cheers ....
Gerald.

 

Ok, thought it was time to add my tuppence worth.

I agree with LeopardAt1 in that there is nothing wrong with him creating his own version of the deeplink mod whether he chooses to distribute it or not. I am a programmer by trade and no disrespect to Anon but I would prefer to make my own mods than pay for one that has already been created. Whether it saves me time and money; or not. That is just my own stubborn nature.

I am also in the process of developing free phpLD mods. Whilst I am not particularly interested in the deep link mod myself, there is nothing to stop me from creating it and allowing people to download it. Thats just plain competition and it happens in every single market in the world.

Just the same as me deciding to use OpenOffice instead of Microsoft Office, or Firefox instead of IE.

As long as the code is not taken and copied then there is nothing illegal or immoral about it. An idea is as simple as that, they are taken, used and improved upon day by day.

If it were not, then I could argue that y'all copied me, because I was in the directory business a hell of a lot longer than most of you. phpLD didn't even exist when I started, so I could argue that they copied me too! I think I was even around before MysticMedia launched Alive (although can't be sure without checking dates properly

But then... oh it goes on... because I copied DMOZ, Yahoo and all of the other original directories... hmmmm so I will just stop typing now

 

To make something clear here, I was originally on your side when you posted your original question. When you claimed that your site was getting higher SERPs for articles, that in your words, "you cut and pasted" - you made no mention of credit or any other acknowledgement of the source.

I may have jumped to a conclusion based on the original theme of this thread of using someone else's idea and deconstructing/reprogramming it as your own that by "cutting and pasting" you indeed were ripping. I owe you an apology for the accusation if indeed what you are doing is within the stated policies of the newspaper site. I do not owe you an apology for the negative rep as 1. I did not give you one and 2. If I did, I would have signed it.

 

All I have to say is i am erect and in someone's girlfriend's panties.

hahahaha

 

I think it's no problem to make a clone of other people work, as long as you use your own codes. For developers, it's natural to see other similar scripts ability, and accommodate them in our own script. Get someone else idea, and give it a few improvements. That's the winning formula.

But still keep respect with other people work, do not copy/paste the codes without their permission, unless they state that they can be used for free (commercial or individual purpose).

 

Hate to tell you this Rang but I didn't give it either. As you remember from our last head butting I left you green rep for keeping your composure. I won't give it twice for the same thing because ...

#1 You said newspaper service which leads me to believe Wall Street Journal or NY Times not an article directory where you repost others articles. However this

... shows you did read the guidelines and still broke them.

The above statement totally depends on the specifics of how it was done and what service you get your articles from but the point is . . . nobody knew as this statement was left unexplained and you offered no links to the specifics. In the end it sounded quite spammy to those of us reading it.

#2 You yelled at us in bright red - large font - bold text. And in doing so you accused us both while saying it was one person that left the rep.

... You guys are really funny. (means 2 people)
... someone (is singular)

How dare you impede my honor. Just to let you know it wasn't me, I'm going to red rep right now and sign it (like I always do). I do this not for disagreeing with me (I encourage confrontation) but for acting like a child yourself and then accusing us of being one.

I never do but it sure seems that you are the one with their foot in their mouth.

Look for the sig ~EAD

Edit: Went to leave red rep and couldn't because I left green that for you here and not much since. So, I just spread some rep around and will give yours in 24 hours because I overdid it for a day. You just let me know which post I need to leave it on so I can prove it wasn't me (At DP you cannot give rep on same post twice).

Now go pick out your twig and think about what you have done because you're going to get it tomorrow.

 

I don't see a problem with this legally unfortunately, but I am not a lawyer. Deep linking as a concept is a broadly accepted and well known thing. Though it seems like you may have more of a public relations issue.

It would be perfectly acceptable to me if you made a better deep link mod or applied a marketing mix to it, giving it points of differentiation. I would view the finished product and compare the two.

As a consumer I like choices and dislike restraint of trade unless there is a clear case of violation of copyright, trademark then you should not feel restricted in transacting your business any way you see fit.

My suggestion is to get competent legal advice if you are in any doubt.

 

This was at first an interesting thread, but sadly seems to be losing direction. I don't exactly understand what you're going on about anymore, jhnrang. It doesn't seem relevant to the topic of innovation in programming but more like your personal differences with others on the forum.

I think you did mention stealing code (or something along those lines) though, right? But the thread wasn't started about that (it's about writing your own code from scratch which is not stealing code but rather competing - if the product already exists).

New original ideas can give someone a monopoly on a market unless they're challenged. In terms of free directories, dmoz is the biggest and has been around for a long time. People are making free directories all the time but none are as recognisable as dmoz, but it's a bit late - whether we like it or not they have a monopoly on free directory popularity. It requires the competitors to innovate and improve on existing products/services. It's good for consumers, good for developers/companies because if they sit on their laurels for too long a software company can overnight find their product unwanted due to a new comer on the market with fresh ideas that make their product look decades out of date.

This is the world... competitors exist in every market (whether it's software, fizzy drinks or newspapers) that are similar.

You wrote: "My view is whatever programming language you use --you can not code an idea in different language as the idea has already been used by others."

Look at web browsers... why does one browser not exist? Because people innovated. Otherwise, we'd all be using WorldWideWeb (look it up) and, that's if we'd got beyond 1948/1949 (in terms of computer technology).

If the world went by your view, there would not be so many different choices in software. There would most likely not be google, digitalpoint, and you certainly wouldn't be spending your time to make money online.

If you cannot concede this then you must be blinded to what's going on in this world. And remember: most governments encourage competition in business and are actively against monopolies.

But you're entitled to whatever opinion you wish, mate. Peace, dude.

 

Very well stated Ryan. I couldn't agree more.

 

Lol --I know nothing about coding --not even simple HTML.

ErectADirectory & YMC -- thanks for your answers. Erect --I don't care about Red Rep --but if there is a debate --there will always be arguments. I didn't mention who did it --but someone must have given it.



When sometimes --I have no time -I do collect some articles from here and there and always gives credit to the source.
Here is a policy statement maintained by EZINEARTICLES

http://ezinearticles.com/terms-of-service.html

Sadly --I got married 10 years back and obviously don't get that too often --Hahaha

Ryan UK

Thats very nice argument you put up there. But everywhere there is agreement and dis-agreement isn't?

I din't start the personal battle --or accusition. Please read the posts. I was busy putting up my arguments on the topic. But somehow I was personally attacked. And I had to make my defence --isn't? Arguments on a topic is different from personal attack.

Anyway coming back to the topic --we are talking about a brand here -- phpLD - Script and mods in the market now.

I think AltaVista was before Google ( frankly -not sure) -- so why didn't Google imitate AV? Why did it create a whole new concept of Search Algo?

The same here. You can always try to improve an idea that has been used . But still it would have to be different --improved and with different brand --isn't?