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Problems with DP now.

Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by finqoo, Aug 8, 2009.

  1. Love*

    Love* Well-Known Member

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    #61
    I feel so bad for Shawn now, everyone's attacking him. :( Let's just agree with him guys & move along. :(
    EDIT: GRRRR!! @ the negative rep!! a$shole!
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2009
    Love*, Aug 11, 2009 IP
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  2. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #62
    Okay, then I should clarify, the posts within the BST section (regardless if the user does things elsewhere or not) are the posts with the least value and taking the most resources. Currently roughly 10% of the users ever had a single iTrader (given or received), with only 2% of the users doing more than 5 iTraders.

    Purely from a value -> resource cost aspect, we have 10% of the users using an area that causes 90% of the problems/resource usage. Worst case scenario (not that it's going to happen), if BST was to shut down completely, and every user that ever stepped foot in there stopped using the forum completely, we lost 10% of the users... {shrug}
     
    digitalpoint, Aug 11, 2009 IP
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  3. funkymario

    funkymario Notable Member

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    #63
    i really don't understand, the forum is driven by cpm and per click adsense ads, with cpm ads it doesnt matter where the visitors are as long as you have visitors and impressions? (by the way no discussion in threads means a drop in impressions and a slow death to the BST section), purely from a value -> resource cost aspect, the value of the impressions is the same in all the sections of the forum, and from a content perspective, the BST section is outstanding, you have there writers, programmers, contests, link exchanges, website sales, services and 1 MILLION POSTS, a lot of love from google:), it's probably the best and most active webmaster marketplace in the internet today.

    and really shawn ? 10% ? (of the 70k active users or 300k global users ?) and regardless, how come the majority of users are right now in the BST sections if only 10% were using those sections, plus you don't absolutely have to have an itrader in order participate, visit or read the BST sections, i even bet many users registred just to get a service on digitalpoint and didn't even care about exchanging itraders, i am sure 70-80% of the business deals and sales on DP are done without exchanging itraders. i personally have done 500+ deals on dp and i don't send itraders anymore unless i am asked to.

    shawn, i really appreciate the fact that you are listening to suggestions made by your users, i have a hard time imagining the CEO of paypal doing the same regardless of complains by millions of people; so i just stated my honest opinion, which is shared by the majority of users (a poll in the general chat section can confirm this), i have just one request, can you try to think about a creative solution to the bumping problem without implementing such a harsh measure ?.

    thanks !
     
    funkymario, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  4. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #64
    Although BST might be full of crap, it wasn't that way many years ago. Its value (for me anyway) was to trade what people were good at to get projects done. These were typically people I regularly posted back and forth with.

    It was another part of a community that made everybody money because the sum of our parts produced some pretty kick butt sites and ideas.

    It hardly needed moderation because you got to know people to some degree before buying and selling.

    I don't think the fact that it has tons of views says anything. The quality of the section is near the bottom of the barrel for 95% of the threads (Yes there are still a few good ones).

    Personally I don't mind the changes at all. The section that should be paid is the Politics and Religion :eek:

    PS. The fact that one poster has a reason of "But I only post in the BST" is a good indicator of the real issue
     
    yfs1, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  5. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #65
    I'm not sure what gave you the impression this forum is designed to make money. In case you haven't noticed, the ads are minimal. And yes, the value of the impressions and clicks from people in the BST section are probably 10% of what they are in other areas of the forum (Google is very good at determining the quality of users programmatically). A very large percentage of the users in BST are non-US users that don't typically buy much on the Internet, so Google pays less for those clicks/impressions. So yes, when you factor in the average quality of the post in BST, the amount of moderation resources it costs to manage BST and then how much money you are actually making from ads in the BST area... It's kind of meh... could take it or leave it imo. It's being left open as a service to OTHER users, not because we are trying to make money off them or anything else.

    As far as Paypal (or other large countries) cutting out customers or potential income, they do it all the time. Many sites don't allow certain countries to use their services. Paypal as an example has restrictions on their services in countries like India, and completely don't allow it's use in other countries. It's all a cost of doing business... if the cost outweighs the gain, you trim the fat. :)
     
    digitalpoint, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  6. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #66
    They are the people who produce fresh content, who give the SERPs something to index. There is no DP without the members.

    I get it. DP is moving away from the marketplace. From my experience on other forums, people regard the marketplace as the most valuable part of DP. Maybe the perspective here and in the stats tell a different tale. All I can do is speak to perception amongst other SEOs and web professionals. DP is where you come to buy and sell first for things under $300 or look for semi-skilled labor outside the freelancer sites

    Obviously, you guys are going to do what you're going to do. That there are so many decent members expressing their concern would be reason for a pause and reconsideration, but maybe you guys see it differently.

    No it's not going to help. But when people offer concern and constructive feedback, generalizing it all as whining, like generalizing everyone using BST as a second class member isn't very effective either.

    There are plenty of folks here who don't BST. They also don't know a Google from a Yahoo, or a backlink from anchor text. They aren't the ones creating value. Go read the Google subforums. 80% of the users don't know the first thing about SERPs or SEO. The threads are littered with nonsense posts that read like bad markov.

    Anyway, I know things aren't going to change.

    No hard feelings. Wish DP luck and success with whatever its future direction is.
     
    guerilla, Aug 11, 2009 IP
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  7. funkymario

    funkymario Notable Member

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    #67
    i still have faith, shawn is a smart guy and a coder, it's against his genetic code to solve a problem with a worse problem:D, however, i second that, i now have to leave the BST section, but no hard feeling at all, i really wish shawn and DP success regardless of it's future direction.
     
    funkymario, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  8. NeoGen

    NeoGen Writer

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    #68
    I feel there need to be more radical changes required at BST section. There seems to be following options:
    1) Shut the entire BST section.

    2) Make a paid BST. Follow a simple process: Buy credit and your ad will be live for a specified period. Threads should be sorted as per thread creation date not last post thread (To take away bump effect).

    3) Limit number of thread. In the entire BST section users should be allowed to start only one thread in two weeks(This can be changed to either one week or a month, it depends).

    Issue that I observe; there are few users who would just post in BST section alone and are not contributing at all in other sections. For eg take a case of following user:
    rebelinlove
    This user has just been posting in BST section on a daily basis. For sure this kind of behavior crowds the section. See here:
    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/search.php?do=finduser&u=300871

    4) Hybrid of 2 and 3. Limit the number of posts and allow users to buy sticky threads.
    In my personal opinion, I would vote for 3. Else 1 is the best option.

    My 2 C:)
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2009
    NeoGen, Aug 12, 2009 IP
  9. UberBrainChild

    UberBrainChild Banned

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    #69
    Great ideas, number 2 would definatly increase the quality of the post and increase revenue for the forum :) and number 3 would also be good, but it would also require more moderating but should still add value to the posts there. What i mean is that people will think about their post before they make it if they are going to have to wait a week before they can make a new one, thus better quality, value.
     
    UberBrainChild, Aug 13, 2009 IP
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  10. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #70
    I agree that it would make sense to cap the number of open threads.

    But the users of BST provide value even if they don't post elsewhere. Most of us have websites, most of us are in need of SEO, information (ebooks), what have you. The BST is one of the main reasons I visit DP, both as a buyer and a seller. That section provides enormous utility for a lot of people.
     
    guerilla, Aug 13, 2009 IP
  11. Fraz!

    Fraz! Well-Known Member

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    #71
    This.

    And This.

    Please, Please, Please.... That would be awesome.
    Even if the new changes get 1% of votes in favor, i will stop whining.

    I personally think that it should be left to the user to decide how he likes his contents.
    And therefore an option to have both 'Active Thread on Top aka THE OLD SYSTEM' and 'THE NEW SYSTEM' should be there, the user can choose which way he wants to see the threads.
    If that is possible of course.
     
    Fraz!, Aug 13, 2009 IP
  12. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #72
    That's exactly how it is... you can choose exactly how YOU want to see the contents.
     
    digitalpoint, Aug 13, 2009 IP
  13. Fraz!

    Fraz! Well-Known Member

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    #73
    Pardon my ignorance, is there a way to see the threads the old way? :eek:
    That would be real nice. :)
    Please direct me to it, or to a thread that explains how to.
    Thanks.

    EDIT - I found it. For those of you stupids like me, Click the Latest Post column and it will sort all of the topics.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
    Fraz!, Aug 13, 2009 IP
  14. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #74
    jhmattern, Aug 13, 2009 IP
  15. Fraz!

    Fraz! Well-Known Member

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    #75
    Thanks for setting up that poll, whoever did it, and you can see clearly what the majority think.

    And I won't whine any more, as frankly i don't really care, because as far as amateur designers (like me) who take part in contests are concerned, this is not such a problem, but to the contest holders. And thanks to this thread i found a way to see the threads the old way, so except for the fact that it would be very difficult for me to sell uncoded templates now, there is not much of a problem for me.

    And i still believe that if you set up a poll with simple options like:
    *) I LIKE IT
    *) I DON'T LIKE IT
    *) I DON'T CARE
    you won't get more than 1% of the total votes polled.
    Not that i am asking you to make another poll, so don't make a fuss about my ungratefulness, cause i am really grateful that the mods here listen and participate in discussion and suggestions, including the Admin himself, which i think is pretty cool.
     
    Fraz!, Aug 13, 2009 IP
  16. 07.

    07. Active Member

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    #76
    BST trade forum is now garbage. You are harming the Sellers and Buyers now. Adios DP. That section was my only reason for visiting, and now we have no idea if we are dealing with a scammer or not.
     
    07., Aug 13, 2009 IP
  17. Kevin T Perry

    Kevin T Perry Peon

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    #77
    What has been taken away that allowed you to point out scammers:confused:

    Kevin
     
    Kevin T Perry, Aug 13, 2009 IP
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  18. buffalo

    buffalo Illustrious Member

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    #78
    You are still allowed to leave a negative review in the thread, you are still allowed to leave negative iTrader, and you are still allowed to leave red rep. Those have always been the recommended methods for dealing with scammers and none of that has changed.
     
    buffalo, Aug 13, 2009 IP
  19. NeoGen

    NeoGen Writer

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    #79
    No it won't require any moderating at all. This can be set up in VB itself. There are VB hacks available that can help to achieve this:
    http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=131014
    http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=204296


    Exactly, that is the point. It will improve the overall quality and will make BST forum spam free.
     
    NeoGen, Aug 13, 2009 IP
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  20. Nemanja

    Nemanja Well-Known Member

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    #80
    I think that Shawn and DP staff are wrong in their decisions about BST section of the forum and eventually after some time they will (maybe) realize it, let me explain:

    Shawn and (great number) of DP moderator don't have any services that they sell in the BST section. They don't need that because they have good jobs or they are whelty or what ever is the reason that they are not into selling at BST section, they are here only to discuss certain aspects of SEO, life, kill some time etc, so in their eyes BST is useless, just some scammers form India or other countries like Croatia (wich I'm from) are there to scam or do what ever they do there...

    They think that they are become so smart over time with all their posts and comments and up to date on all topics of life (because of their lifestyles, mindset) so they think that they are now in position to tell people what is the best for them and also have the right to make decisions for them, because of that attitude they don't see that this new idea is so f***ing wrong . Now they are came up with mindset that they are on some kind of quest on educating us how to sort the threads. Shaw and DP stuff are playing some teachers and they want to teach you how to become "computer savy" by teaching you to sort the treads the right way. WTF is that all about?? I can't believe that I'm so pissed right now and I don't even have one sale thread in BST section, just that stupidity and show-off is pisssing me off. Most of the people will never came to conclusion that they must sort the threads, because on all majority of other forums in the world they don't have to do that, so that will never cross their mind and they will leave because they will think that is nothing going on here...

    I agree with all the spam and useless threads stuff, but this is not the way to solve the problem like that, there where some great possible solutions by other members which you won't even hear and consider as the solution. My simple suggestion and first thing you should do is to change thread ordering like it was before last posts first and make it the forum default. Right now this is not good solution and if you want to rescue BST section from falling apart you need to have some compromise with the members here after all the forum is here in the first place because of the members.

    If you don't want to have BST section and if it is only 10% of the income then terminate that section, but I think that is not the case here and 651,625 threads and 5,098,015 posts proves that. Also if you don't care about it and the money this section is making and if the BST is such a pain in ass then I'm willing to make the sacrifice to make you life better and to take over BST, I will manage all the aspects of it and there will be no spam for sure and people will be happy trading services...

    All I'm saying that if the BST section will remain in this way than you will loose some great members because they will look for an other opportunity to sell/buy/trade their services with others and in the end that will happen, so if this is what you want that go ahead, but be assured that members will find their way to build some other community to trade like they builded this one also. This would be such a shame to waste such a great community and opportunity to make it even better.

    I have had some great time here at DP and will come here for sure no matter what you decide to do with the forum(but crossing my fingers that you will come to your senses), but will also search new communities wich are similar like DP was before this change and will search other ways to trade with people like i did all my life.

    I wish you good luck and all the best in the future...


    Nemanja
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
    Nemanja, Aug 14, 2009 IP