1) No. You are making the argument that we would be lost without the warmongers. I am making the argument that we would have gotten there without the warmongers. 2) No. But you can't say it doesn't help your economy when you plunder other nations of their treasures. 3) No. but I guess at least 40% of the expenditure is wasted or diverted to crimes. 4) No. History has a place for sure but when it's always the winning side that writes it, it's hard to consider it is fact just because it is written in a book. Actually that sounds like a fighter's territory, to even think that I could possibly hurt another (human or animal) shows how wrong you are. You're the one preaching hate & war is the way to go. I'm into 'peace man' and ftr, I LOVE my parents.
You've clearly lost track of the conversation. Let me bring you back. I responded to your claim: Today's tech-savvy generation of kids are seeing what's happening to the harbingers of truth and people like Manning's cruel treatment at the hand of warmongers will only lead them to revolt. The parallels of one (domineering) country of so called good guys commiting worse atrocities than the so called bad guys etc. I believe you should expect a continuing closure of right-wing ideals as this uber-clever generation tears the walls down all over the world. by pointing out these so called "War Mongers" were instrumental in creating the information filled world a guy like Assange lives in. I never claimed we would not have gotten there without them. That is just you trying to change the topic again. And since we are talking about "truth", it might be a good time to point out the editing job your hero Assange did to the chopper video. Joseph Goebbels would have been proud of such a message of "truth". Another idiotic statement, implying we actually do plunder nations of their treasures. I suppose we can put this in the same box with other wonderful statements like, "uber clever generation", "Manning's cruel treatment", "so-called good guys committing atrocities". IQ damaging reading material. Good point. So, since all the history books are tainted by the biased views of the winners, lets throw them all out. Where does that leave us? Here is another newsflash. Just because something appears in a book, does not make it non-factual. I can see why a guy who has almost no factual information to back his opinions would want to do away with books though. Right!!!! I'm not going to dig for it, but I'm quite sure you are quoted somewhere in this forum demonstrating blatant disregard for the lives of some 2000 Afghani's who support the US whose names were outed by Private Manning and Assange. You may not be able to hurt another human, but you clearly don't give a crap if a few thousand die as a direct result of your idiot hero and his antics. But why? Just because they cleaned up your crap, wiped your nose, and brought you into this world in the best way they knew how? I'm sure if I knew them well, I could list off a litany of reasons why they are the worst thing since Hitler. You and I both know for a fact they are far from perfect. All we need is a guy like Assange to pry the information out, especially the private information about their ongoing business dealings today. If it isn't as bad as we might like, we'll paint it up in it's worst possible light and publish it in a place where we know it will have maximum damaging impact. When its all done, I'll sit on the sidelines explaining to everyone why you, and every other person of your generation can hail Assange's truth as the reason we should no longer have anything to do with such scumbags.
If you didn't twist my words or speak so much shit in that post I would find the time to answer them....again. You are smokin some really weird shit eh? Here's an idea....when you post so much shit at once there is no point answering. You know you're twisting & not being quite honest about things, it doesn't make great convo when you're obviously talking shit, and so much at once. Try breaking it down one paragraph at a time so it's not so much work to set you right. I will give you that point yes. I would definitely rather the 2,000 active dobbers..err participants to be killed rather than the 200,000 plus innocent civilians, including many little children that your heroes have killed, maimed & injured because I went (and still do) for the lesser of 2 evils in another thread.
You've clearly lost track of the conversation. Let me bring you back. I responded to your claim: Today's tech-savvy generation of kids are seeing what's happening to the harbingers of truth and people like Manning's cruel treatment at the hand of warmongers will only lead them to revolt. The parallels of one (domineering) country of so called good guys commiting worse atrocities than the so called bad guys etc. I believe you should expect a continuing closure of right-wing ideals as this uber-clever generation tears the walls down all over the world. by pointing out these so called "War Mongers" were instrumental in creating the information filled world a guy like Assange lives in. I never claimed we would not have gotten there without them. That is just you trying to change the topic again. And since we are talking about "truth", it might be a good time to point out the editing job your hero Assange did to the chopper video. Joseph Goebbels would have been proud of such a message of "truth". Another idiotic statement, implying we actually do plunder nations of their treasures. I suppose we can put this in the same box with other wonderful statements like, "uber clever generation", "Manning's cruel treatment", "so-called good guys committing atrocities". IQ damaging reading material. Good point. So, since all the history books are tainted by the biased views of the winners, lets throw them all out. Where does that leave us? Here is another newsflash. Just because something appears in a book, does not make it non-factual. I can see why a guy who has almost no factual information to back his opinions would want to do away with books though. Right!!!! I'm not going to dig for it, but I'm quite sure you are quoted somewhere in this forum demonstrating blatant disregard for the lives of some 2000 Afghani's who support the US whose names were outed by Private Manning and Assange. You may not be able to hurt another human, but you clearly don't give a crap if a few thousand die as a direct result of your idiot hero and his antics. But why? Just because they cleaned up your crap, wiped your nose, and brought you into this world in the best way they knew how? I'm sure if I knew them well, I could list off a litany of reasons why they are the worst thing since Hitler. You and I both know for a fact they are far from perfect. All we need is a guy like Assange to pry the information out, especially the private information about their ongoing business dealings today. If it isn't as bad as we might like, we'll paint it up in it's worst possible light and publish it in a place where we know it will have maximum damaging impact. When its all done, I'll sit on the sidelines explaining to everyone why you, and every other person of your generation can hail Assange's truth as the reason we should no longer have anything to do with such scumbags.
Agreed, but I thought there was some hope....I admit, I was wrong! He's just not quite right. I'm thinking he's truly a stooge but can't work out who for.
Better than losing track of my mind, which is what you seem to have done. You can't just post a pile of bollocks and not expect anyone to think you're retarded. Putting a few arrows pointing to the people....hahaha...reference to goebels....crazy....! No implication neccessary...you invade other countries and end up with their resources....simple really, for the thinkers of the world. I know. I'm full of them whereas you're just speaking shit. Can't make the guy stop telling the truth so start attacking his parents....nice. Now why should I ever respond to you again instead of just taking you for the idiotic extremist you are and leaving it at that...? What's next? How low do you go? Is this what we should expect as normal from a person who is an admitted wannabe wife-beating Muslim, and extremist? And only the right-wingers like yourself will believe you. Most others, like myself, are on the side of truth and justice where you are arguing against both. Your further support for the wrong team is expected.
Very sad whats happening to him. He will be remembered as one of the first to stand up for their rights and ultimately walking up the sleeping giant which has been slowly stripped of its rights, aka the U.S.
Freedom of the press - for one, by someone who is willing to sacrifice for the truth and his conscious.
Just thought I would share how England handled its leaker. It's a 2009 story but related as the info leaked is from the same war. Source
Are you able to distinguish the difference between stealing a piece of gum from a supermarket, robbing widows of their life savings, and robbing banks and armored cars? All involve theft, yet all are not treated equally in the eyes of the law, nor should they be.
At the very least, the conditions would seem to amount to a violation of Article 13 of the UCMJ, which states: No person, while being held for trial, may be subjected to punishment or penalty other than arrest or confinement upon the charges pending against him, nor shall the arrest or confinement imposed upon him be any more rigorous than the circumstances required to insure his presence, but he may be subjected to minor punishment during that period for infractions of discipline. Source
Absolutely. Are you able to distinguish the difference between seeing war crimes and handing that information to the media as opposed to gathering the information and selling it to the enemy?
That would assume someone was a witness to war crimes, something that is not true in Manning's case, or McNally's. McNally is charged with leaking classified civilian casualty numbers to the press(not war crimes). He will likely be charged with treason and spend 10 years in prison for his actions. Manning handed volumes of classified information over, likely without even knowing what it's encrypted contents were. Again, no war crimes to expose, but treason on a much larger scale. Given the amount of blood on Manning's hands, he's got a decent shot at execution.
quoted from above (02:29:04 PM) Manning: i guess im too idealistic (02:31:02 PM) Manning: i think the thing that got me the most… that made me rethink the world more than anything (02:35:46 PM) Manning: was watching 15 detainees taken by the Iraqi Federal Police… for printing “anti-Iraqi literatureâ€â€¦ the iraqi federal police wouldn’t cooperate with US forces, so i was instructed to investigate the matter, find out who the “bad guys†were, and how significant this was for the FPs… it turned out, they had printed a scholarly critique against PM Maliki… i had an interpreter read it for me… and when i found out that it was a benign political critique titled “Where did the money go?†and following the corruption trail within the PM’s cabinet… i immediately took that information and *ran* to the officer to explain what was going on… he didn’t want to hear any of it… he told me to shut up and explain how we could assist the FPs in finding *MORE* detainees… (02:35:46 PM) Lamo : I’m not here right now (02:36:27 PM) Manning: everything started slipping after that… i saw things differently Source I believe that source will blow every one of your dishonest answers right out of the water. IMHO you should have a read before commenting further.
What makes you think Manning is a member of the press? Took me six months to get my press credentials. That may be so. I guess it depends upon if sleeping and standing while naked constitutes "punishment or penalty". However, IF the Salon article is true, about Manning being concerned about assisting Iraq's corrupt government round up and torture their own citizens, a case COULD be made that Manning was possibly being asked to perform an illegal order. HOWEVER, that does not excuse the mass leaking of classified documents. The one is not related to the other.
The article states he went searching and found irrefutable proof, which is an excuse to get it out there. It draws parrallels with the abu graib release and Ellsburg's release, done on similar grounds. From the last source: Evidence of war crimes provides the excuse to leak whatever you have to to stop it. The people comitting war crimes against anyone, even the 'perceived' enemy, bring only continual shame to your country.