Poll:At what point should abortions be legal?

http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm

Looking through the polls, I realized how limited our previous poll was on the issue (because it's much more complicated than a 'yes or no').

Refering to this:
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=69028

 

I don't see why women shouldn't be allowed to have an abortion whenever they want? I think the advantages (less unwated births, which means less crime, less illegal abortions, which means less deaths ect) outweight the disadvantages.

 

Right up to 8 and half months? What about right before the day they're going to give birth? The doctor says, you'll probably have it that day and you get cold feet and say I want an abortion....that's fine to you?

Just speaking from the polls I got from the link above...if that's what you believe your a very small minority. Although I don't know what the mentality is in the UK.


CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. Jan. 10-12, 2003

"In the last three months of pregnancy"


10% Legal

84% Illegal

4% Depends

2% Unsure

 

I'm from the UK and I couldn't careless what other people do with their un-born children. That isn't my concern nor do I feel the need to judge mothers who have abortions, unlike that rather large God crowd in America.

I think you will find most people in the UK couldn't careless.

Frankly anyone who does care what others do with their un-born children have problems of their own that need sucking out of them and tossing in to a garbage skip.

Therfore I vote for Legal in all cases and let the individuals involved decide the fate of their un-born. It's no-one elses damn business.

Pete

 

I'm not religious myself...or atleast in the general sense of the word.

So don't judge the 'mother', judge the 'believer'. Got ya.

Maybe.

I see.

May I ask by what moral standard do you live by? I'm not speaking of religion, because it seems you don't follow that...I'm speaking by what standard do you think of something as right or wrong?

 

What's wrong with that? I can judge who I like, christians etc cannot - those are the rules. I didn't make them up, their God did. I can judge them, they can't judge me, although plenty love to and go against their Gods wishes don't they?

What kind of question is that, really? I live by my own moral code, some instilled by my parents, some formed by my surroundings and events in my life along with behaivour hard-coded in to my DNA.

Frankly if I was in a healthy relationship I would never look at abortion as an option. If I wasn't in a healthy relationship or I felt the child wouldn't be able to have the life it deserves, as my child, I would may be consider abortion.

The fact is, as long as that option is available to me that's great.

Whatever people feel is right or wrong for them or their un-born child. It really is no-one elses business and that is a fact that's not up for debate.

Pete

 

I believe it's judge not, lest ye be judged...so they could judge and have many times in the bible ie a person makes a moral judgements such as adultery, and consequently they'd be stoned. Not my style, personally.

A bit extreme, but then again so many people are and they just don't know it.

Perhaps I'll answer it first, so that you may understand.

So Rick,what standard do you think of something as right or wrong?

Well, Rick, I happen to think if there isn't a god, that right and wrong has to be based on a standard, and it can't stand on it's own ie human action is not right or wrong unless you base it on some standard. Therefore, GIVEN there is no god, there is no right or wrong...just choses.

So what is my standard, because I evidently go through life judge things as right or wrong at times. I don't do crack...must be a reason for that.

Oh yeah,...my standard is that we should try not to harm other humans (maybe even those not quite out), but given some humans use rather abusive behaviours (e.g murder, stealing, rape) we should deal with them appropriately...if need be kill them, even if that involves the ACCIDENTAL killing of innocent individuals (in pursuit of those 'guilty'). Note the last part is more of a war reference and doesn't really pertain to abortions.

So why do you chose this Rick?

Well, as far as human to human relationships go, it would be damn near impossible to move forward if we didn't have some realitive harmony with each other (and there's more to it).

It's not that it's Righteous or Evil, it's that ultimately if you allow the constant abusive behaviour to occur, you'll end-up in a civilization that full of nothing but abusive people. I have a sort of 'Saint Michael' mentality ie you try to defend the best of people/things...but that's extremely hard these days.

It's not as though I have a firm position on this issue, but given that's my standard, you may understand where I lean.

By the way, I'd say many (if not the majority) of my beliefs are concious decision, that have very little to do with my liberal family and liberal community. If anyone helped me come to my conclusions, it was more or less what my uncle said to me....don't let anyone think for you...you might pick the right or wrong idea, but you have to make that chose.

 

Is this a new thread with same content and new players? I thought this was already discussed in the other thread? Hey, if you really want to spice this thread up then invite MattUK for a comment. Nothing like negative versus positive for some enlightening but rediculous entertainment.

 

Why not? So long as it doesn't have a major risk for the mother at that stage.

I don't understand why people get so annoyed when they're talking about unborn babies being aborted when it's legal to kill other creatures like Whales who have the biggest brains on the Earth, who bleed a slow and painful death. Also, it's pretty clear from the statistics that since the US started the relaxed abortion laws decades ago, crime rate has dropped dramatically.

 

Blitz, If you had to kill either an 80 year old person that already lived it's life or young 5 year old kid, what would you chose? The same logic goes when the question is about abortion. Younger people have according to me a bigger right to live since they havn't experinced the life yet. The only times abortions can be considered is if it's threathening both the mothers and the childs life. Otherways, the childs life is more important than the one of the mothers. I have bigger respect for murders that shoot some 50 year old man than a woman that makes an abort.

 

That is perhaps the worst arguement I've seen posted, do you think these things through before you post or do you deliberately come up with irrelevant arguements?

According to you huh? So that must make it right.

Since we're into irrelevant arguements, how do you know the kid isn't going to turn out to be a mass murderer? Surely since the adult has lived longer and not turned into a mass muderer then they have less chance of being one. Kill the kid I say! Sounds crazy, yep but so do your arguements, you can't compare killing a foetus to killing an 5 year old.

But only both? So if your wifes life was in danger you'd quite happliy sacrifice her for a baby?

There's never going to be any agreement on this issue. People on the pro-life side believe a foretus is a person. People on the other side believe not. There's no middle ground.

 

Why have a child if it's unwanted?
Why bring a child into abuse?
Why waste tax money educating a child which will become involved in crime (contributing to social problems) and live off the state (more money wasted)?

I'm making judgements here, but they're supported by statistics. It's a fact that an unwanted child is more likely to cost the state more money/become involved in crime and hurt others than a wanted child. I would argue that the quality of life is more important than how many years you probably have left to live.

 

How do you know that a grown up kid wont turn into one?

Don't have a wife, I would never want to sacrifice anyone of them if I had.

Ok, but where do you draw the line? When does life starts according to you? I can't see any sharper line then when the sperm unites with the egg.

 

Why accept immigration from third world countries? Why don't kill everyone instead of putting them in prison. Why not kill sick people that have to wait 6 months for an operation?

Why waste money on retired people instead of just killing them?

I made some judgements too. Do you like them?

However, what you say about wasting the money isn't neccesary true for all inviduals. Many people that come from horrible conditions can be successfull at a later stage of life. This is nothing that have to follow you all the time. I think it would be a loss if we killed all unwanted childs.

And due to the fertillity problem we have in europe when it comes to the ethnicall reppresentable population. We need to take every measure to prevent Eurabia. A society were the majority of the kids are poorly integrated moslems that should take care of the old original ethnical identity. The population in total will decrease and the number of pensioners will go beyond 50%. How can such society structure be financed? Will such scenario not cost the society?

 

But which one would you sacrafice? Go on, choose? I'd go for the baby, you're telling me you'd sacrafice your wife?

For me, being a human is all about life experiences, intelligence, consciousness and feelings and memories. For me a foetus is not yet a human. Untill it is born it is just a potential for life, as the mother is existing life then her priorities and choices come first.

 

Yes, obviously there are very successful people who come from bad conditions - but they're exceptions. The crime rates in US dropped dramatically when they introduced abortion - this is fact. May I ask why you feel you can speak on behalf of females around the world and tell them what they can and can't do with regards to their bodies?

 

Well that's probably because you love her, not because I love your wife. If was a doctor, I would make sure that the baby survived in the first place. But that's not because I think your wife is unimportant. However, who have most future? Your wife that already has lived the most exciting time of her life or the kid who has a whole life infront of him/her?

You are speaking about your opinion now, but as I said, that's a very vouge line between life and not-life. The development of your body was a big process in your life although, you have probably forgotten it. You can decide what's life experince for yourself but you can't decide what is for someone other. Since nobody knows about why life exist(I'm not an christian but an agnostisist) and why we live until the death, I don't think we should experiment with that either. Instead, we should give everybody a chance. Sorry, but murdering people is not a policy that I support wether it's babies or growned up people.

 

Yeah ofcourse, when murdering people becomes legal, the murdercrimes will fall. I'm sure you didn't count abortions as crimes.

However, since you like 'facts', the homicides increased drastically, take look at this graph:


This is also interesting


Wait a minute, did this have a positve effect on crimes?

 

You still haven't answered my question................. You'd be happy to sacrafice your wife?

Yes, and you your views are your opinions also.

Doesn't life experience begin from birth? Isn't birth the start of life? When do you count your life from, your date of conception or your birthday?

Yes and you've shown this through your devout opposition to the war in Iraq and the oppostion to the death penalty
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=595063&postcount=8
I just love the well thought out logic and consistancy of your arguements!

 

Erm, isn't that the homicide rate for people aged between 14 and 17 as it says at the top of the graph?