I run some uk based web servers and resell space on those servers to the public and am a official registrar with nominet. I am also a legally registered Spanish based business and contract my dedicated servers from the UK. So you can see its already a bit complicated. I just received an email from nominet entitled: "Police Takedown Request". Nominet have forwarded to me various pdf files sent by the Police Central E Crime Unit based in Lambeth, London containing the details of some sites that we host and have registered the domain names for. Basically we have a client, based in China, who has registered some .co.uk domain names from us and has put on some e commerce sites selling counterfeit goods. The police in the UK have said in their request: (called "APPLICATION FOR CLOSURE OF UK BASED DOMAIN NAME") Further down in the letter it says: The requests also contain screenshots of the home pages of the sites and whois details as well as reference numbers and contact address details for the e crime unit. I have in the meantime sent a copy of the take down requests to the client in china and asked him to get back to me before 9am GMT tommorrow (because the uk police have given me until 3pm tommorrow) So does anyone know where I stand in this? (as I am hosting these alleged illegal sites) Before I take this to my lawyers tomorrow morning (its 7.30pm here right now) I was hoping to get some feedback in relation how this would be handled from a legal standpoint. What is the law in regards to forcing a web host to take down a site?
Generally that depends on any applicable law in the jurisdiction you're doing business in. Sounds like you did everything you can. Various providers, including the registrar I once worked with in a previous life, would similarly do what you've done. Of course, that depends on what you outlined in your legal agreement to your customers if especially faced with legal issues like this. Depending on how possibly severe the issue is, you can give them time to respond before pulling the plug or do it altogether without waiting for them. Unfortunately it seems your client is violating a criminal act. That's severe enough. If you don't do something, sadly you might be held liable for someone else's actions. Try not to wait for that to happen. BTW, I just remembered this case: http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2009/01/web_host_faces.htm Not exactly violating a criminal act. But...you likely get the idea.
The UK is still supposed to be a democracy where you're innocent until proven guilty and I can't see how a suspicion of selling counterfit goods is the same a being guilty of doing that.. It's interesting that Nominet have forwarded the information to you considering that they have the same/more powers than you do regarding the domain (they are the office registrar of .co.uk domains after all). Maybe their solicitors have forwarded the info to you to sort out because they don't want to deal with it. You need to speak to a solicitor but the whole thing seems a bit "iffy". If the police were really concerned that the site is selling counterfeit goods or involved with criminal gangs I'd think it would be more likely they'd be visiting someone personally to remove the server rather than ask you to take down the site, or contacting you as the host for help and co-operation to monitor the site more closely. Why would they want you to send their contact details to the registered domain owner and warn them what is happening (it would take them less than 60 minutes to set up a new domain and site somewhere else)? I'm not saying ignore it - it could be real - but something doesn't seem 100% about it. Contact your solicitor tomorrow and let them deal with it.
This reeks of being a fraudulent email, I have never heard of any real law enforcement communicating by email. I do not know much about UK law, but I doubt they could just take your site down without some sort of court process (in the US the courts would have to order it). Your lawyers will be the best people to go to for this, they know what the police have to do to actually take any action. Perhaps you can give a call to the police they claim to be and ask if they communicate by email.
I have never heard of this either, its like the police is saying we are coming for you without due/court process... I would actually get the phonebook, and call them, and say hey, did actually send me this, I want to verify... but if you know that you are hosting a client that has illegal stuff, I would dump the client, he is not worth it. in the end, your client is not going to care about your what-so-ever...
Some hosts shut down phishing sites without a court order. Why is this any different, other than perhaps not hearing this sort of thing done every other day?
I have also received an email from Nominet and the PCEU informing me they were shutting one of my sites down for due to criminal activities and me being in breach of nominet's terms and confiditions. My site was a simple EBAY affiliate site with a bit of content and auction feeds from Ebay themselves. I will ring the PCEU tomorrow but I'm wondering whether the someone has bought a product from Ebay that was counterfeit and I'm getting blasted for it ???? If that's the case then why don't they shut Ebay down ? Annoying thing is this site has belonged to me for nearly 12 months !!
Give them a call to clarify the situation. Please be aware that because your server are located within the UK, the police will have the powers to shut down your servers if they suspect criminal activity (With a court order I believe). I know recently it has been reported in the press that the police do plan on clamping down on counterfeit goods entering the market. Its always best to enter into dialoge rather than just ignoring it.
You need to investigate to make sure it is legit. As a host you can't let anyone send you a message and take something down based on scary text. It could be legit and not. You really have to look into it more. I would hope that most hosts do the same, otherwise I or anyone could send anything to any host to provoke a take down just for the heck of it.
NO NO NO do not phone the number supplied. Look up the number yourself and phone that one. The one supplied could be a scam number that is part of the scam and this sounds very much like a scam to me. If they want you to close the sites I am 99.999999999999% sure they should serve you with a court order to do so.
If you choose not to close the client down, you can get ur ass in trouble. Better just do it if he dosent reply to you within the given timeframe..
Actually, nominet suspended the domain name the very next day with no warning so basically they took action on my behalf because obviously the site cannot really function without the domain. The domain status with nominet is now marked as ***suspended*** However I am wondering what the process is if the client decides to use a .com instead? Thats not covered by nominet. My "guess" would be that if the site is hosted in the UK then the police would send their letter to the UK data centre where the server is hosted if they cannot send it to the registrar. (however it does beg the question as to why they did not do that also in the first place...maybe they cant close sites down via the DC's and they know nominet quivers at the knees at the site of anything official looking - or - nominet knows the law and takes action - however- they never even responded to my request for advice on what to do) It seems that this is a huge "grey area" in terms of the law with the complexity of clients being in different countries, hosts being in different countries and owners of the data centres and servers being in different countries - all subject to different laws. Nominet in this case was not helpful AT ALL and I am a bit disappointed that even though I asked them for their advice they never even had the courtesy to respond, they simply suspended the domains without warning (which is fine, they are covering their backs BUT they did not offer any guidance, to me being an enlisted registrar, which in this complex situation I think was needed) I think the most responsible thing for web hosts (ie someone in my situation or similar) would be to look at the web site after receiving the official looking warning, confirm the warning is authentic, visit the site and determine if the site is offering fraudulent goods and give the customer a warning and close the site down. I host thousands of sites and cannot be responsible for all the content and can only take action when its pointed out to me, its not like i can approve every single image and file before its uploaded to our servers, this would be detrimental to the customers.
Thanks for the update on this. I find it a bit worrying - assuming the contact from the police was genuine - that a site can be taken down just because someone suspects it may be selling counterfit goods. Seems a bit harsh in the circumstances.
most hosts would pull the site immediately, then let the person implicated prove that they weren't up to something naughty. If you act any more generously than that, you will start to attract lots of 'dubious' sites pretty quick, once word gets out.
That's what I was thinking. I'm also pretty sure that the method chosen by the authorities to deal with this is 'fast track' and designed to get illegal / scamming / fraudulent websites taken down asap.
Police aside, at a bare minimum, if the WHOIS information is inaccurate and a registrant does not update it when notified of the problem, the domain name will probably be suspended according to most TLD authorities' rules. It sounds like that applies in this case.