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PHP 7.0 What? & When is production?

Discussion in 'PHP' started by dmvictoria, Nov 29, 2015.

  1. NetStar

    NetStar Notable Member

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    #41
    No. #1 I am not a developer with the company I work for because as a Business Consultant I make a lot more money consulting on acquisitions and product development. #2 Keep in mind these aren't script kiddies. These are actual developers with formal education and certifications. Our Team leads and Development Managers have extensive background in development and at one point were software engineers or programmers in their career. This is a problem that most software companies are faced with. Have ever you worked for a corporation developing software?

    There you go. Your projects are self focused. You don't have to worry about other people with their own "best practices". Keep in mind, it's obvious YOU are a great developer. But every great developer has a different approach to how to accomplish something. And if you are ever so lucky to find someone whose mind works very similar to yours you still probably have different programming styles whether it is something as simple as formatting to something more complex. It's AMAZING how easy it is to see if code was written by a single mind or 10 different minds at 10 different times.

    It sounds to me the real problem is how these libraries are used not that they exist period. A Framework used in replace of learning a programming language is NEVER a good thing. I am willing to bet most frameworks are misused and used by people who write poor code. But a framework used to overcome a problem like the one I previously explained is using it in good form and what it was built to be.
    SEMrush
    We don't have issues with developer retention. Every corporation has turn over and churn whether it be promotions, retirement, lateral transfers, or terminations. You can't avoid that in business. Software created a near decade ago very rarely will have the same working hands on it 10 years later. That's just business. That's life. And my unnamed mega-corporation that I claim to work for, I do work for. Why don't I list the name? Because I plan to continue to work for them. And it's not in my best interest or even relevant to name. In fact, it would be the epitome of stupidity to mention the name. And as a business consultant I'd demonstrate a complete lack of professionalism in doing so just to make a useless point on a message board.

    To clarify... I AM a developer. I AM a programmer. I have been programming for just about 20 years. I am NOT a developer with the company I work for. I am a Business Consultant. Why am I not seated behind a computer typing code? Because I have done that and have advanced my career to be in the position I am. It pays much better and I enjoy it more. Do I have the right to comment on my companies practices? Yes absolutely. And I'm in the position to do so. You just assume a LOT.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2015
    NetStar, Dec 27, 2015 IP
    SEMrush
  2. PoPSiCLe

    PoPSiCLe Illustrious Member

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    #42
    Well... if he uses an email-address that can be linked to the account, and that email-address can aslo be linked to his real name, then it's not that big a leap to find what company he works for, for instance. Personally I have a few (less than 5) nicknames I use across the web, depending on the language of the site, which ones are already taken and so on, and most of those are also linked to other identifiable content, like email-addresses, phonenumbers, name and so forth. I'm too lazy, and it's too late in the evening to try to figure out who NetStar is right now, but feel free to take up the challenge.
     
    PoPSiCLe, Dec 27, 2015 IP
  3. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #43
    Whereas I'm of the generation where formal education in IT wasn't worth the paper to wipe with, and certifications were meaningless compared to experience. See when I was head tech at a (now two decades defunct) whitebox builder where just trying to hire road techs I had these kids (I say kids, they were older than me) with masters and doctrates from places like MIT, who were so clueless and useless we ended up better off going to job fairs at high schools and hiring kids that weren't going to make it into a college -- as then we didn't have to deprogram the *nix BS and book-learning that was of zero practical use in the real world.

    It's why I have little if any use for "formal education" as it's mostly just two to eight years of keggers and misinformation -- the latter part based on which company is giving the college the biggest kickback that year; in the 90's it was Novell, then it was Microsoft, and today it's Adobe.

    Hell, I learned what BS certifications and formal education is when I became a CNE (Certified Novell Engineer) and taught the CNA course (Administrator) -- meaningless drivel today and to be frank, the coursework for both had NOTHING to do with how Netware worked!

    There's a reason "recent college grad" to me is the same as saying "couldn't find their arse with both hands" -- but then I went a much darker route of learning; in the "Sir, yes sir!" sort of way. This is my keyboard, there are many like it but this one is mine. I must master my keyboard as I must master my life. My keyboard, without me, is useless. Without my keyboard, I am useless...

    Yeah, mostly double entry accounting systems and development tracking packages -- The process usually boils down to some suit with with pie-in-the-sky bullshit because they don't know the first damned thing about ACTUALLY doing anything and simply failed upwards, hence that permanant brown discolouration on their nose. You then have to pack them full of **** to get the job even close to done in a sane manner since they won't listen to what you tell them despite having hired you because they don't know how to do it. Their ideas usually contain the most inefficient time-wasting approach. Then you are teamed with kids who've had their heads packed full of shit by "career educators" who's work you have to spend 2/3rds your time cleaning up after -- not that it matters since you're lucky if any of them don't quit or get fired inside 3 months for some other useless kid with a useless degree.

    Then you get sick of the shit, quit, and the company folds shop within months of your saying "screw you guys, I'm going home."

    Sadly, I just described THREE former employers.

    When LUCKY, you have a project manager or are the project manager, and said manager rides herd on the codebase, assigns specific tasks to the various sub-developers, and recognizes that "the less code you use, the less there is to break" and that frameworks only provide the ILLUSION of safety... while in reality they're more placebo than fact -- or worse "for people who know nothing about the topic, BY people who know nothing about the topic"

    See the giant steamings pile of asshattery known as turdpress or bootcrap; where it's painfully apparent the creators didn't know enough about PHP, SQL, HTML or CSS to be developing such systems... again making it hard to fathom why anyone would choose it except out of utter and complete ignorance.

    Mind you I don't actually mean ignorance in this sense as an insult, there's nothing wrong with not knowing any better... STUPID is an insult, as it implies the inability or unwillingness to learn any better.

    I'm just wondering when worst practices of 1970 to 2003 became "best practices"...

    ... and that may describe my current projects, but that's because I'm burned out from all the bullshit I outlined above; and my utter and complete disgust with the idiotic halfwit crap that's now "acceptable".

    Much less the outright willfully ignoring practices and standards that are quite well established -- like those of the language itself, guidelines like the WCAG, and worst of all -- the outright pitching in the trash of some three decades of usability studies. Hence why you'll find so many "designers" and "oh I only do back end" developers who if you even MENTION NNGroup, they either go "what's that?" or into a more rabid attack than anything I've ever posted here.

    As I've said a few times, my view of current web development practices is basically disgust to the point of nausea.

    Sometimes not so much, though it's far worse today as garbage like "version control" software replaces having a manager that *SHOCK* actually does their job. Aspects of the job like establishing a style guide, enforcing that guide with existing staff and teaching it to new hires. Verifying safety and standards practices, creating an update schedule and making sure those higher up the ladder realize that you can't milk decades out of a software thanks to changes in available tech, without making the overall cost higher in the long run. Other aspects of the job like making sure that all developers write separate natural language breakdowns of the code they write for the project so that future dev's have notes to work from.

    (there's a reason when I do example code for people here I'm able to write such clear section by section explanations... It's called practice.)

    Sometimes it's hard to convince the -- as a designer I once new described them -- "Suits with checkbooks" (shows a real level of respect there...) that in hardware terms 3 years is obsolete, 5 years is the scrapheap, much less that software is LUCKY if it makes it through a decade without having to be tossed and started over... and yet that is what SHOULD be planned for.

    But then, seems far too few people plan for the worst. Another mantra I had drilled into me in the '80's, Hope for the best, but plan for the worst...

    Unfortunately that's all to often WHY they seem to get used. If these rookies that use these frameworks took the time to understand the underlying language, they'd realize how grossly inefficient, how badly they eliminate agility of changes, and how unneccessary they really are.

    They all seem to encourage sloppy bloated practices and programming methodologies that have nothing to do with how the underlying langauge works -- see the shoe-horning of MVC into top-down linear languages. MVC in a non event-driven environment is some serious herpafreakingderp idiocy!

    Though some of the concepts DO make sense, the "objects for everything" over-extensibility reeks of the same type of garbage that explains why Java Crapplets inhale upon the proverbial equine of short stature on desktop systems. (Says the guy who's top three favorite languages are Object Pascal, Modula 2, and Smalltalk - uhm...)

    To me if it's actually providing that, there's something seriously wrong with project management, or the solution to easy problems are being overthought.

    Kind of like a Clipper program for membership/development I was tasked with updating back in the early '90's... It was giving up the ghost on the AT class rig it was running on from there simply being too many records (about 30 megs worth) for their codebase to handle. I started digging through it and it was all copypasta from a major "library package" at that time -- what today we'd call a framework. My team of three was tasked with updating it, and two of us looked at each-other and went "Update? Be faster to rewrite it from scratch!"

    ... and it was. We switched it to Paradox since it had a Netware 3.x server-side module (though the actual deployment was on a alloy slave network), and in a week had put together a from scratch rewrite of something the boss (who only knew clipper) thought was going to take

    That project was a laugh as the clipper program came in at 26 megabytes JUST for the script before even counting the overhead of clipper/dbase. Our rewrite was 120k of code... and fixed a LOT of the UI woes. What happens when you have microcomputer guys working on major products which were originally created by mainframe guys. Hell our entire distro fit on a single 1.44 meg floppy as something they were distributing prior to that by running around with a 40 meg external tape drive that plugged into the parallel port.


    Not arguing that, when I say retention issues I mean 50% or more turnover every three months. I've seen it a few too many places and things like frameworks preventing good coding habits and poor project management are most always the cause.

    Fair enough, it just makes me wonder if you are working on projects in Ada. :D

    I've had my fair share of projects I'm not allowed to discuss -- mostly UK businesses and government agencies who needed quick rescues from facing accessibility fines; it's sad how many of these places where packed full of so much sand they could change their name to Sahara, much less having to tell them like I tell everyone else "throw it out and start over, there's nothing I'd try to salvage from this mess" -- USUALLY such messes sleazed together by a healthy mix of "too many cooks", framework programming models that restrict what can be done in the output without neutering the upgrade path, letting some PSD jockey who knows shit about shit delude themselves into thinking they are "designers" and coders who don't know enough about the languages they are working in (PHP, JS, HTML, CSS, etc, etc) to be coding a blasted thing!

    No worries, you said in the earlier post:

    Which seemed pretty cut and dry. My bad for assuming you actually meant what you wrote. :p

    Assumption? Yes, based on what you said vs. my experience with such things... which are directly in conflict; 180 degrees apart on direction.

    The stuff you seem to be advocating is a hefty part of why I no longer have an internal censor. Again, disgust to the point of nausuea, and a lot of pondering what in blazes type of delusions one has to have to see benefits from these needlessly overly complicated systems that make more work, not less, REDUCE sustainability instead of increasing it, and results in systems that top to bottom are less useful than the same class of software was 25 to 30 years ago.

    Admittedly, I say the same thing about faith. I guess when mass delusional behavior and adults with imaginary friends are a societal norm, I have to lower my expectations even further than they already are.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2015
    deathshadow, Dec 27, 2015 IP
  4. NetStar

    NetStar Notable Member

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    #44
    So what? If you are hiring professionals you need to know at the bare minimum what they studied and their background. So the degree and certification, while may not define their skill set, will absolutely give you an idea if they are an ideal candidate to interview.

    This is just your opinion. It has nothing to do with my post. Just side track bantering bs.

    SO maybe I should wonder why the hell you think you offer any value in this debate... You have no formal education...you have no experience in the field...yet you are voicing your opinion as fact and wondering what makes me think I'm qualified to voice mine???? Idiocy.



    More worthless side bantering bs that has nothing to do with the topic.

    Off topic.

    Holy shit.. This has nothing to do with anything. This is why I generally read a few sentences of your replies and move on.

    So what...

    Nothing to do with the topic.. or anything I said in my post.

    I don't think you read ANYTHING I said. I gave a very specific reason as to why someone in a collaborative environment would use a framework. It has NOTHING to do with your response.

    Judging by what you just said about your background you wouldn't know anything of the sort. People generally don't stay in the same position for decades. They grow, they decline, they retire, they make lateral moves, they get new jobs, they get fired etc. Very rarely are programmers leaving their jobs because they need to use a framework. That's asinine. As a developer you DON'T make the decisions of what to and what not to use.

    Why is this hard for you to comprehend? My background is programming. I've worked both corporate and freelance jobs as a developer. My current role with the company I work for now is a Business Consultant. I most likely would have never made it to this position without my experience as a developer. Do you get it? You are a developer. But it doesn't sound like you currently hold that title for a corporation. Should I question your participation in this thread?


    I think your ability to comprehend others needs to be worked on. Your social skills need to be worked on. You also need to realize that your opinion isn't fact. And the reason I personally gave for why a framework can be used to over come future structural issues cannot be argued with your opinion of libraries containing "bloat" because it's comparing apples to oranges... which explains why EVERY single thread you are in you act as if you are being challenged and it turns in to a never ending debate with you seeking the last and final post.
     
    NetStar, Dec 27, 2015 IP
  5. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #45
    It's funny, you claim I'm not reading what you have posted, whilst I suspect much the same of you --- I get a laugh out of how you consider direct comparisons, similes and explanations of why I have the opinions I do are magically "off topic" or "unrelated".

    Which seems to be a big standby of yours -- see how you can't grasp how "if the front end is crap how can the back end be any better?" and somehow make claims it's unrelated and irrelevant. Makes me question your comprehension of, well... anything.

    ... and of course saying my training and experience means I have neither? WAY TO COMPREHEND WHAT I WROTE!

    But then a pop culture reference to military service is likely lost on the typical civvie puke.

    "nothing to do with anything" -- REALLY? I'm starting to wonder if I should just start replying to your posts with "Do they speak English in what?".

    Your understanding of my posts is almost as delusional as your view on frameworks. Makes me wonder if you're actually one of these scam artists I'm usually talking about since, well.... you're showing a lot of the signs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2015
    deathshadow, Dec 27, 2015 IP
  6. NetStar

    NetStar Notable Member

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    #46
    Cheers =)
     
    NetStar, Dec 27, 2015 IP
  7. Sharma Ankush

    Sharma Ankush Member

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    #47
    I don't know about PHP 7.0 but am sure PHP is integrated with MySQL I ok :)
     
    Sharma Ankush, Jan 6, 2016 IP
  8. ketting00

    ketting00 Well-Known Member

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    #48
    Hey there gurus,

    I got Nginx, MySQL5.7 running on my 64-bit Windows 8.1 machine. How the hell I can get 32-bit PHP7 running on it as well.
    As I try to install I got the message VCRUNTIME140.dll is missing.
    How to fix this?

    Thanks,
     
    ketting00, Jan 6, 2016 IP
  9. ketting00

    ketting00 Well-Known Member

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    #49
    Never mind, XAMPP already included it.
     
    ketting00, Jan 6, 2016 IP
  10. elisagrace

    elisagrace Peon

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    #50
    Hey,PHP 7.0 has been released and is the start of PHP 7 series.

    Features:

    • Improved Exception hierarchy

    • Many fatal errors converted to Exceptions

    • Anonymous Classes

    • Zero cost asserts

    • Significantly reduced memory usage
     
    elisagrace, Jan 12, 2016 IP
  11. oliverusselldev

    oliverusselldev Greenhorn

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    #51
    I have heard php 7 has really fast performance and many CMSs and platforms have already integrated it in their products. I also saw some benchmarks of php 7 on WordPress, Drupal, Laravel and PHP Stack and they were really impressive. There was a blog post on Cloudways blog, it showed php 7 benchmarks with WordPress 4.4.2. WordPress 4.4.2 on PHP 7 (with cache activated) was giving a response time of 4ms with 250 concurrent visitors as compared to 1.2sec on PHP5.5. That really impressed me.
     
    oliverusselldev, Mar 10, 2016 IP