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Suggestion Petition to revise the 'likes' system or remove it

Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by evershawn, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #101
    You're a smart guy I have faith in you, I was just offering a suggestion.
    SEMrush
     
    indyonline, Mar 24, 2013 IP
    SEMrush
  2. IG2010

    IG2010 Well-Known Member

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    #102
    Thank God I found the unwatch link... this topic is so boring
     
    IG2010, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  3. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #103
    While heavier moderation can be useful, it also doesn't scale well... especially if you are incentivizing users to post pointless crap. It still makes sense to de-incentivize things that cause problems whenever you can.

    Speaking of... moderation since the change has been 10x easier. Things get addressed in minutes usually instead of before where there was so much crap that we would be backed up for days trying to get through them. Some of it is better moderation tools, but I do think a big part of it is the fact that people don't have a *reason* to post pointless crap anymore... that's not to say it doesn't happen, but it's FAR less prevalent now.


    I do look for them already... and to be honest, I haven't run across many. A few here and there, but when it came down to it and I really looked, it wasn't that that actually posted anything good... it was just more than I liked them as a person.
     
    digitalpoint, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  4. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #104
    I'm happy for you... Glad you figured it out... If one doesn't like something, they don't have to read it...
     
    indyonline, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  5. kingofking

    kingofking Notable Member

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    #105
    Shawn, How about this member - > https://forums.digitalpoint.com/members/jgsketch.44996/ ?

    he has been a member for 7 years and he has 43 iTrader ratings. but he has mostly used DP as a market place. But, he has only 1 like. Should not this member be established?

    The 43 iTrader indicates he/she is trustworthy person and he had involved in 43 transaction through DP. But, now he/she is restricted. Is this justifiable?
     
    kingofking, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  6. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #106
    They do have a reason to post pointless crap. To TRY and get likes. People are doing anything they can. Including going to other forums and doing like exchanges to get around it.
     
    indyonline, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  7. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #107
    Well iTrader doesn't mean they are trustworthy (which is the whole reason it went away). But an established member is someone who has contributed something useful (even if something tiny), not necessarily a measurement of their "trustworthiness". If it was based on iTrader, even I wouldn't be an established member since I've never once bought or sold anything in Buy/Sell/Trade.

    I skimmed some of their posts... nothing jumped out at me as a great post, but at the very least, they can write English, so I suppose that's good.


    Well, they can try, but posting thousands of pointless posts in hopes that 3 people accidentally hit "Like" isn't a real good plan.

    As far as people doing Like exchanges, if you know about them, you don't think we do as well? ;) I can't count the number of people who have been banned for even *trying* to do a like exchange.
     
    digitalpoint, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  8. kingofking

    kingofking Notable Member

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    #108
    Well! Let me try to find such real quality affected member and get back to you :(
     
    kingofking, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  9. evershawn

    evershawn Well-Known Member

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    #109


    Let me touch on this again, since it seems to have already been forgotten. This all depends on what you consider not doing anything. If a member, like myself for example, had a low post count but oodles of activity in the market place, is that really less contributory than the chat bug that likes to talk about life or play know it all in the support thread? The market place does drive a lot of the activity and traffic here. Again, why are those members any less valuable to you? They've made a lot of this site what it is.

    Is there dump trucks full of shit to sift through? Hell yes there is. You've got one of the biggest market places online and it's a magnet for scammers in 3rd world countries. Your likes system does very little to combat THAT problem if that's what it was intended to combat. It does not prevent those scumbags from viewing market place posts nor sending PM's to people with their scam canvas.

    Automated ways to moderate this? Sure, there are dozens of ways I could come up with that do NOT affect people that have already established themselves in one form or another and been here for many years.

    Here's a 5 suggestions off the top of my head:

    1) If you're NEW you can't view the market place or send PM's to anyone until you've been vouched for or liked X amount . (If you're NEW).

    2) Verification process which requires perhaps a phone number / text verification, (maybe even a required CC or Paypal verification to use the marketplace, this would make things more difficult for repeat offenders)

    3) If you've been tagged as a scammer by enough verified / established members you get a temp ban pending an investigation by a mod / admin. This could queue up the scumbags so you can deal with them as time permits yet pull them off of the site and let them get away with much less. Eventually demoralizing their efforts and no longer allowing them to make much of a career scamming here.

    4) Make the requirements higher for the problem countries. This may seem racist but numbers speak for themselves. If you live in a problem area, it just comes with your territory. Would also require some decent proxy detection as well as a stiff penalty for trying to use one.

    5) If spamming is the problem better registration process can fix this, there are certain things that bots just can't get past any more. Make registration difficult, use Xverify.com and human verification systems like areyouahuman.com - These two things alone can pretty much eliminate bots from your site as well as cut back on spammers and scammers significantly while not affecting anyone or anything else already in place.

    My point has always been and still is that retroactively making your older members re-establish or re-verify themselves is bad.
     
    evershawn, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  10. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #110
    Well, you "did it". Was it that hard?
     
    Blogmaster, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  11. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #111
    Of course, I believe I mentioned it in another post too. And that's why I didn't send you links or post them. Thought about bringing it up to set some of them up, was willing to help and pose as an interested trader but figured you were aware of it and you mentioned a long time that you knew it would happen.
     
    indyonline, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  12. evershawn

    evershawn Well-Known Member

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    #112

    Ya, going through a million member forum one by one to identify which members should be eligible one by one is a great plan.

    Wait, actually probably better to just assume they're all eligible to be full members and ban the ones who are not. Was it guilty until proven innocent or innocent until proven guility?....

    Look I'm all for making things more difficult for NEW members if there's an influx of new low quality shit bags. What I'm not for is throwing up a new requirement for old members to continue using the site who were already full members with no issues. To me that's just a way to monetize or generate new content. It doesn't stop any scamming from taking place what so ever if you can still view the market place and send PM's.
     
    evershawn, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  13. kashirakaze

    kashirakaze Banned

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    #113
    The likes system ruined this forum for me. I come here to make money, not to chat about irrelevant topics. But how do you ever get likes unless you chat about stuff?

    Then furthermore, I try to add value to the board by posting about some tools I use to geographically track traffic. Sounds valuable right? Sounds like people might find it useful and like the post right? The staff deleted it and then warned me. That is bullcrap. I'm sorry for the language but I am beyond upset right now. I've been a member here for years and am being treated like crap.
     
    kashirakaze, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  14. Spoiltdiva

    Spoiltdiva Illustrious Member

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    #114
    @evershawn
    In your post #109 you touched on (suggestion 2) a verification process. This would *really* complicate matters. And what about the issue of privacy and security? Do you not feel that members would object to this?
     
    Spoiltdiva, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  15. evershawn

    evershawn Well-Known Member

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    #115

    It can be difficult and discouraging for some, yes. Not as much the point though. I don't think it serves what is described as it's intended purpose. The carrot at the end of the stick is to get in to the market place, right? It hasn't stopped the scammers from scamming, they can still view the market place and send PM's.

    If you want to really put a stop and force the bad eggs to participate in the like system, you've gotta block it from view and prevent their ability to PM. That will never happen because then our good friend Google won't see and index those treads and you'll really see a drop off if you can't PM other members.
     
    evershawn, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  16. evershawn

    evershawn Well-Known Member

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    #116

    I think members will object to anything but more so to fixes that don't fix anything other than someone's bank account.

    My suggestions are ones that address the core of the problem. Maybe not the best one but I think better suggestions that whats currently in place. Not sure what you mean about privacy and security..? You're not forcing anyone to do anything right? They can choose to become verified and participate or not.

    I think members would be much less objectionable to something that actually worked and was putting a dent in the scams going on. I maintain that the likes system does more to inflate the content and monetize users than do anything to prevent scamming which seems to be the biggest problem here.

    Also, the current rep system in the market place is unusable, there's no way to even mark people as scammers. I don't really think the focus is on fixing this at all.
     
    evershawn, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  17. Wincrew

    Wincrew Banned

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    #117
    This should get fixed. It is sad how long time digitalpoint takes to change anything. He implements and change and sticks with it. Maybe it is just me, but I think he needs to listen and what members have to say more instead of posting counter posts.
     
    Wincrew, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  18. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #118
    This sounds to me like you want members to have zero responsibility and DP carry it all. If people PM me, I ignore it (unless I know the member).

    If someone offers something, then I use my own intellect to decide if I go for it or not.


    And there is nothing wrong with Google picking up the market place, because it brings in new members who have to offer what someone else is looking for.
     
    Blogmaster, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  19. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #119
    1. Not practical, since it's much more important for us to utilize this forum as a support venue for our users. Many of which have zero interest in any part of the forum discussion, but they do need support from us. I'd delete the Buy/Sell/Trade section before shutting down the ability to give our users support.


    2. There's something along those lines in place already (not going to get into what exactly because it would only help people get around it).

    3. If someone reports a scammer with actual evidence (not just, "He scammed me! Ban them!"), they are banned permanently without needing "votes" from members.

    4. Already in place. See this thread: https://forums.digitalpoint.com/threads/mitigation-of-low-quality-users.2628741/

    5. Also already in place.

    Old quality members didn't have to revalidate themselves... there were over 16,000 established members on day 1 because old rep was converted into likes.
     
    digitalpoint, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  20. evershawn

    evershawn Well-Known Member

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    #120
    But there is still scamming taking place by users just reading the market place and PM'ing users with scam. How else would you address this? Why not just move the support section or change the permissions of the support section and just make the WTB / WTS stuff something privileged?

    2% of your user base is acceptable as "members didn't have to re-validate themselves"?

    Again, I had tons of the now 'legacy' iTrader rep from real transactions, I had plenty of posts, yet I had to still re-validate myself as a member to participate in the only section I was interested in participating in.

    You say iTrader was flawed, what rep system doesn't have it's flaws? I don't think anything is perfect but that's what you used for the market place. Then you take something that wasn't related to the market place and use it as the means to gain entry back in to the market place.. /baffle

    Why doesn't participating in the market place have something to do with the market place itself. What does posting an article outside of the market place or kissing someone's ass in their thread have to do with the market place? I fail to see how this makes the market place any more quality and yet it only impacts the market place.
     
    evershawn, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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