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Suggestion Petition to revise the 'likes' system or remove it

Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by evershawn, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. evershawn

    evershawn Well-Known Member

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    #41
    It's like saying Google is a free service, yet they are worth 200+ Billion Dollars... go figure. Free services are some of the most profitable businesses that exist. Imagine if you went to check gmail one day and Google suddenly said "In order to fetch your email today, we're going to need you to do 4 hours worth of data entry for us". "If you don't like it, here's a link to yahoo mail, now piss off we don't want you because you didn't make us enough money today".
    SEMrush

    I'm not sure you grasp the concept of how this business works. This is not a charitable organization and Shawn does not provide this forum because he's got a heart of gold (not saying he's a bad guy), but it's not that wants to make sure that the world has a great free place to chat about websites (at least not anymore). This is a business and he makes money from us, the users. It is a certain approach to a business where as you would provide something that generates users, lots of users, and you find passive ways to monetize those users. This is why you see ads all over the place, premium memberships, content generation requirements (yes this is actually a very valuable as well) and very stern moderation (I get warnings all the time and I honestly am trying to conform with the rules, as an example).

    In my opinion this site is evolving in to a much less passive model and more of an aggressive one. You're going to catch flack for that since DP was originally built in a passionate and less aggressive way and now major changes are being put in to place so it's simply just more profitable. Again, I can't say I blame him. If I had a forum this size, I'd also be looking for better ways to monetize and generate SEO driving content as well. It's the right move as a business but in my opinion ignoring REAL member suggestions, being stubborn and assuming you have all of the right answers and member feedback is essentially worthless, is not. We DO put money in his pocket every time we load a page, click an ad, write a post, subscribe for premium membership, buy ad space or refer a friend here (I'm sure I've left out tons of other ways this forum generates dollars).

    We are what made this forum what it is and should be respected as that. People signed up here, participated, made relationships and made a home here because of what it was when they joined. This is a forum community, not a department store. When you make major changes to that and you don't care or measure the impact of those changes before fully implementing them or care what all of those members who built your community have to say about it, that's a little disappointing to say the least. There will be flack to catch, that's just natural. When you treat members that have been around for 5, 6, 7+ years like they're just as worthless as random spammer X, it truly shows the caliber of your character and what your motives truly are.

    Someone who cares about a forum and it's members always will value member feedback and great idea's even if they may adversely affect revenue. This is someone that wants to continue to build something that they're passionate about. Someone that just throws in mechanics that make a site more profitable, generate more SEO content, talks down to members trying to provide suggestions and insights and maintains that no changes will be made because this is not a democracy, is someone that's running a business and only concerned with profitability. I'd venture to guess that DP will likely be changing hands in the near future and needs to show some numbers that will justify a decent price tag.

    Nucita, you registered here less than 2 weeks ago. I don't expect you to really understand but hopefully I've been able to break some things down for you. DP was started with passion and it's evolved in to being nothing more than business.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
    evershawn, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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    SEMrush
  2. Spoiltdiva

    Spoiltdiva Illustrious Member

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    #42
    @evershawn
    No offense but you have got to be one of the most long winded gasbags on here.:rolleyes: You do make valid points but........there truly is something to be said for brevity.;)
     
    Spoiltdiva, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  3. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #43
    The only thing that changed was *how* established members were gauged. Your Gmail analogy doesn't really work because under the old setup, someone would sign up for Gmail and then not be able to send email until they came back 2 weeks later and made 25 posts in other areas if the site. Buy/Sell/Trade was never at any point open to all users... Ever.

    This site was not built upon the forum... The site was around for 9 years before the forum. The forum came about primarily because we needed a support venue for existing users. If you have not ventured outside of the forum, you are missing all the good parts of the site. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
    digitalpoint, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  4. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #44
    I Agree.
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    The established member rule is worthless. There are so many threads in every other forum where people are doing DP like exchanges.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
    indyonline, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  5. evershawn

    evershawn Well-Known Member

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    #45


    Not sure why you like to continually analyze me rather than just touch on the subject matter... With regard to brevity; Perhaps I could throw up one liners or even paragraphs but when I am touching on delicate-natured material Id be much more likely to offend more and not convey my real message to as many people.

    Long winded gas bag...? Really? I thought I was being articulate and insightful. If you want to throw labels around... You have nearly 3k posts and registered less than 2 years ago so I guess that makes you a nebula of hypocrisy. You certainly like to throw stones from your glass house. People that go around throwing labels and criticizing everyone's ideas are also considered forum trolls. Moral of the story, don't even attempt to label others, you have plenty of ill-favored labels your own activities qualify for.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
    evershawn, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  6. Spoiltdiva

    Spoiltdiva Illustrious Member

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    #46
    Well, well, well it appears that my comment has touched a nerve. Having a vibrant postcount would indicate involvement as opposed to being long winded. My posts are for the mostpart to the point, and show a willingness to adapt and evolve.
    You on the other hand go on and on crusade like.
    Don't be afraid or get defensive about a bit of critique. Say your piece but please don't write short novels. You would do better and get your point across without alienating, if you'd get off the soapbox.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
    Spoiltdiva, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  7. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #47
    personally I don't see anything wrong with a long post... Better to explain than leave a short ignorant comment like most people that have a problem with the new system. I really don't see why it matters anyway, nobody has to read it...
    --
    evershawn, go on with the "novels", write 'em as long as you like. There is no rule against it...
     
    indyonline, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  8. malky66

    malky66 Acclaimed Member

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    #48
    Plus they're a great cure for insomnia.....
     
    malky66, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  9. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #49
    Like I said
     
    indyonline, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  10. Spoiltdiva

    Spoiltdiva Illustrious Member

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    #50
    Indy to a point I get what you're saying but......years ago a large part of my income was derived from writing. Also I happen to know a thing or two about advertising. I understand that evershawn is very articulate. All I'm suggesting is that based on my experiences brevity is better than the alternative.
    When I read evershawn's posts I do agree with somethings, but he loses me by the 3rd paragraph because his posts are too long. Again I say that brevity has it's virtues.
     
    Spoiltdiva, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  11. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #51
    Well he is not writing this to make money. It's a discussion.
    --
    What does "knowing a thing or two about advertising" have to do with this? did I miss something? I haven't read every post in this thread so maybe I did, IDK.
     
    indyonline, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  12. malky66

    malky66 Acclaimed Member

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    #52
    I didn't say anyone had to read it, i was just saying could be a good thing for insomniacs to trawl through and make sense of.....worked for me last night..:rolleyes:
     
    malky66, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  13. TIEro

    TIEro Active Member

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    #53
    To me, the whole "Likes" argument thing is exactly the same as denying same-sex marriage. All the old traditionalists whine and moan, complain that it's undignified or persecutes those lovely people who've supported the establishment for so many years, blah blah blah.

    When push comes to shove, the old traditions were never very sensible anyway. The "Likes" system doesn't make the slightest bit of difference beyond the first couple of days when you can't post in x forums. Big deal.
     
    TIEro, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  14. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #54
    I think you have forgot that this is a suggestion and feedback forum. That is what it is here for...
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    Even though I agreed with it before, there are some valid points being made. Long time members that have followed the rules and survived the nazi moderators are being treated the same as n00bs and spammers.

    Yes, 3 likes is easy to get I know...
     
    indyonline, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  15. Spoiltdiva

    Spoiltdiva Illustrious Member

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    #55
    Advertising and writing go hand in hand. In advertising we understand that less is better when approching the client. (keep it short and sweet);)So my experience in advertising taught me about the value of brevity.
     
    Spoiltdiva, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  16. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #56
    He is not advertising though, he is having a discussion.
    When giving feedback or a suggestion, I think longer is better IMO. Would you rather see somebody say "the new rule sucks I think you should change it" or explain why they have the opinion?
     
    indyonline, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  17. kingofking

    kingofking Notable Member

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    #57
    As shawn mentioned there was NEVER a time when BST was open for all. Previously, it had the minimum eligibility as 25 posts which was now revised to be just 3 likes which i feel is a "better move" (might not be the best of the best moves). Its like imagine if gmail asks you to send 25 mails to have full access to gmail features and one day it just said "You don't need to send 25 mails anymore. Just give us some 3 good stuffs (posts), we will give you the full access to gmail features". Would you still prefer to hang around sending out 25 mails to some users and spam their mailbox rather than doing something which just interests / adds value to someone?


    Agreed. If you are so concerned about how he monetizes this site, think of how Shawn himself would be concerned. Why would he prefer to lose out the users (i mean the $$$$$$) with this rule changes and "very" stern moderation? He would have done his studies to retain the users (rather than spammers) for which he might make easy $$$$$. Warnings all the time? he. he.. why would the mods target you? I never remember getting a warning in the recent past.

    who are the "REAL" members you are talking about? "3 likes" should not have worried the real members. Please do remember that its NOT every time that only DP takes from us. We too take many things from DP right? From every member, every section, every post, every signature. What not? You expect DP to give everything for free to the thousands of members? No it cannot. As you said, DP is not a charitable organization. (you knew that)

    Yes we made this forums this big this great! So? DP did not asked everyone to start from scratch (forgetting the years of contribution). It indeed converted the contribution to likes for the old members. Contributing members cannot be defined by the years of membership. Even a 10 day old members can be so proactive and contributing over the 10 year members. So? You now expect the 10 year old member who visits the site for once a year to be given full privilege? But, again contribution cannot be "truly" defined by 3 likes. But is it not a better move than "25 posts" is what the question is !

    Why would the owner have to lose his revenue? He has to "well" balance between the users and the "revenue" and that is what is being done. Don't you see any improvement in posts quality? interface? market place? please do not say no! check all the sections then!. Taking 1000s of suggestions from all the members and implementing it will no way lead it to a best forum. Decision taking has to be only done by only a certain group and if all start taking decisions then it would for sure result in crap!
     
    kingofking, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  18. Spoiltdiva

    Spoiltdiva Illustrious Member

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    #58
    You Indy, are *famous* for your one liners. (brevity) I rest my case!:rolleyes:
     
    Spoiltdiva, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  19. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #59
    No, he is saying there should be something in place for the long time members who have followed the rules and not been banned.
     
    indyonline, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  20. indyonline

    indyonline Prominent Member

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    #60
    Who cares...? Are you trying to tell me I have a rep for "one liners"? lol like anybody really gives a shit or pays attention...

    I have to disagree anyway. not even half my post are that small...
     
    indyonline, Mar 24, 2013 IP