Performance issues: vBulletin 3.8 vs 4.0

Hi,

I wanted to share with you some of my concerns in regards to performance of vBulletin 3.8 vs 4.0.

I recently upgraded one of my forums from version 3.x to version 4.0 (from now on Forum4) and now I'm able to compare its performance vs another forum which is still using version 3.8 (from now on Forum3). I decided to do this because once I upgraded this first forum to version 4.0, I had the feeling that it is slower than when using version 3.8.

First thing I did was a test via Pingdom tools and from that test I can see that Forum4 is calling 3 CSS files while Forum3 is calling just 1 CSS file, so it looks like vBulletin 4 adds 2 extra CSS files. The more files, the more time spent with server requests.

And when using Pingdom tools, Forum4 is slower than Forum3 most of the time by between 2 and 2.8 seconds.

Then I tried the wonderful whichloadsfaster.com tool with the feature, comparing 10 times both sites. And Forum3 loads 45% faster than Forum4 in average.

Now, the performance of Forum4 is even worse if you take into account the following data:

Forum4 is a smaller site compared to Forum3:

Forum4
65 online users in average
14.000 posts
26 forums listed on home page

Forum3
130 online users in average
111.000 posts
45 forums listed on home page, plus several subforums.

Of course, both sites are and have been on the same server.

So I wonder if anyone else had the same opportunity to test performance of vBulletin 3.8 vs vBulletin 4.0. I have some bigger forums, all of them still on version 3.8 and I'm facing yet another reason to not upgrade to version 4.x. If the performance is worse for a smaller site, I wonder how worse would it be for bigger sites.

And I also wonder if DigitalPoint's Better CSS for vBulletin 4 will be of any help in this case.

By the way, do you believe that version 4.1 will do any better?

Thanks in advance for your comments. : )

 

By the way, here is the link for DigitalPoint's Better CSS for vBulletin 4:

products.digitalpoint.com/vbulletin-css.php

 

I'm not sure how valid my opinion is because I've never used VB3. However, I do think a lot of it depends on your host and the speed of the server. Also, there is a lot of tweaking you can do to VB4 and performance mods that help with speeds. Given the extra CCS files found in VB4, among many other obvious details, I don't think version of VB4 can compete with the speeds of VB3 straight out of the box.

 

Hi strudinox,

As I said, both sites are and have been on the same server, so this has nothing to do with the speed of the server. : )

 

I think that is the saddest part. "out of the box" should be pretty fast, which it's not. There should be NO EXCUSE for any forum to be as slow as vB4 (out of the box). Checking the other forum options out there, vB4 is the slowest of the lot, which should say a lot about what IB is doing and where it is going (which as far as I can tell, is down hill).

 

While I have to admit that vB4 Publishing Suite is rather slow compared to the forum script, vB4 Forum is fast enough. Regardless of what many will say, if you switch to a free forum software after using vBulletin you'll definitely feel like converting your professional website into a web toy.

 

I'm using vbulletin 4 and my site loads in a snappy 2.2 seconds while page refreshes finish in 1.1 seconds
http://gtmetrix.com/reports/vgchat.info/db7odDSF

 

Hey all, I found this thread via google search.

Im currently on SMF 1.1.14 and am about to make the move to vBulletin 4....good move? I thought you all could help reassure me.

 

I can't say it's truly a good idea. If you are using a base forum, you may wish to check out Zenforo or Invision Power Boards. Both of switch are less buggy

 

Well im actually paying a guy who has done it a dozen times to do it for me...

 

I installed 3.6 on my own, and I'm a moron. 4.x can't be much harder. Outta the box, it's just a series of clicks. Save money, do it yourself. But again, I'd do something else, or at least consider it.

 

You mean vbulletin 4 is buggy? Im sure they will have fixes soon, no? I dont want to switch, then switch again. The money is not an issue.

 

If money is no issue, then I suggest IPB, it has more options, and better supported packages, as is less buggy overall. Though it does not have as many user made addons. vB4 is buggy, slow, and is owned by evil (lol ~ serious on the first two)

 

How is Vbulletin 4 buggy? I've administrated several installs, and haven't had a problem with bugs. The problem is that it's not well optimized.

 

I've been working on vBulletin related projects since 2004, and I can't remember a time when it was a buggy piece of script. Even if bugs were discovered, they were dealt with in a timely manner. Yet, if you do some reading about it on different webmaster portals or even on their official forum, you'll see people here and there constantly compaining about bugs and all. As a vbulletin mod developer myself, I took some time to study their script, and I can tell it's a truly solid software. There are many options around but I would definitely choose vB over other forum software, simply because it's mature, and has been there for ages.

 

Guys, please, I created this thread to discuss performance of vBulletin 3.8 vs 4.x, not to discuss vBulletin vs the rest of the world.

Thank you.

 

Its maturity has nothing to do with it at this point. When Internet Brands bought it out, they changed the entire mindset of how the software works from the code to how they deal with people.

Most of it's original developers are no longer with them at this point based on various factors (one of them being how they operate).

When 4.0 came out it had soooo many bugs (you can not deny that) that it should have never been gold at it's release. In fact, not only did it have too many bugs for being gold, they even openly admitted to it not even being complete (they still were working on several things, like stylevars for example). They have been working on getting them down, but there are still a lot of them left.


The reason you can find many people complaining about it's bugs is because they do exist...which was not something you really heard before IB took over Jelsoft.

At 4.1.4PL2 it's FAR better then it was, but it's still not what one would or should expect from a company that is mature, and has been there for ages.

In a matter of speaking, that is exactly what we are doing

3.8 is FAR better then 4.0 in my opinion, and will remain so it seems...

 

Qryztufre, I am not an Internet Brands advocate, and do not have plans to become one.

Sadly, this whole vB bashing story was born around the price increase that took place a year after IB bought from Jelsoft. I happened to be around and their new terms caused me a significant loss as an existing customer at that time. I did not mind the price increase nor the fact that the copyright note changed, what I did mind though was the fact that I had to pay almost the cost of a new license to renew my existing vBulletin 3 packages. I still have a few expired vB3 licenses in my account, so what...

Yet, as a sofware user, I've always been fine staying with vB, and I only upgraded to vB4 when I considered it right. I have to admit they made a somewhat bad move pronouncing vB4 as Gold a bit too soon, feeding those never happy even more, but the script itself did feel stable to me the way it was. I did submit a few bug fixes on their portal myself, I did not have a problem doing that. You need to try living with bugs as this is how things are, we aren't living in a perfect world. No forum software is bug free. None. But vB does a great job.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to complain about the price changes, lol... But no, my issue was not, and is not with the price changes. The prices of things always change.

While yes it did start with the price changes, what followed was worse. The bugs. They had HUNDREDS of bugs, most of which have only just been fixed, and in many case, bug fixes simply caused more bugs. 3.6 & 3.8 did have their fair amount of bugs, as does any software. But compare that to what they came out with (and still have) it's simply a stand alone issue.

As many of the people I saw complaining used to be diehard vB fanboys, and when you can turn the fanboys away there IS a problem.

All that said, I do still have hopes that they will turn themselves around. I am considering starting several more forums, and have been putting it off & putting it off for months. Mainly because I have always loved vB and have never liked IPB from a users standpoint. Now however, I am considering IPB simply due to it being 'better' for what I am looking at. However, this is not a vB vs IPB thread, so I'll leave that at that. What I would LOVE is to install all those new forums I am considering on 3.6 or 3.8 vB both of which are far better (out of the box) then 4.0 even with it's fancier options (most of which by the way can be duplicated with 3rd party addons, many of which even done better that way).

 

Point taken. I went to their website, and checked on the pricing plans. Both standard ($149.999) and business ($349.999) licenses come with 6 months software upgrades/support. And yes, I need to buy the business package if I want to receive "same business day ticket response" which I am currently used to (between 30 and 60 minutes). I also have to sign up to get access to the IPB modifications forum to be able to see what I can do there, not the best way to win a possible customer considering a switch from another platform.