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Paypal doesn't CARE

Discussion in 'PayPal' started by georgedosen, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. #1
    Paypal doesn't care.
    This is my story
    I love to use paypal before. Although I lost most of the dispute i have (i didn't have alot) i still use it to buy ebay products and recieve payment. Afterall it was the only one most sites accepted and it didn't require a cc to be verified.
    I had great hope for paypal I loved it. It is because I never actually had a major problem till 2 days ago. OF course i read up how some people say paypal sucks because they limited my account. Never happened to me though. I thought paypal's rumour of limiting, losing money for seller or buyer was just a myth and will never happen to me.

    So two days ago I decided to get back into a game I use to play. Of course some people say its very addicting and I decided since I started to sell off my sites I will start to play it again in the spare time.

    I go on a site where the accounts were being sold. I contacted the seller over msn and it went well. The account was worth at $300 in my eyes and I could easily resold it. I knew he did not have the connection and resources to sell it at $300 but I knew i could. So I offered $60 when his selling price was $100 and after some time negotiating it was sold at $60. I took the nessary steps to ensure I did not get scammed like getting online on the game and meeting him in game. IT all went well.
    Of course I sent the payment to him.

    I only heard about western union being a company scammers use to get money. Since it requires no id right? I thought about paypal and I'm like it is fool proof. SO I went ahead to send the money to him. A few minutes later he saids It went to his bank. I dealt with this before I knew it does not go to the bank right away. It goes to funds and unless he withdrew it it should be in fund. I told him it should be in fund and if he wants to be in the fund he should refund and I'll send it over again. He told me that just open a dispute. Of course I have no idea i thought he was going to find the refund button on teh dispute.

    I went ahead in a calmly fashion went to dispute opened it. Then this part made me realize what kind of a person he was. He told me he was going to tell me to close the dispute and it will go to hsi funds. As I dealt with sites not particually accounts i still knew closing a dispute would mean i couldn't open it again. That moment on i panicked. I knew he was a scammer. I did not try to do what he wanted me to do.

    He said if i closed the dispute he will type the info on word while I was closing it. Word because he was going to print it out and send it to me as a mail so it will be tangible goods protecting the seller and the buyer. I did not close it. I thought about it long and hard and I was like there is no way now because I knew he was a scammer now.

    I opened it copied the whole msn convo to the dispute. I listed it under virtual goods even though the seller was mailing the proof of ownership with the username and password because I thought it was still a virtual good. It's like buying a stock online and even though you own a asset now still list it as virtual goods.

    I went to sleep knowing that I prob won because the convo clearly has messages of him trying to bait me into opening dispute and closing it.
    I slept soundly that night and went to high school. I came back home to find out I lost and the only word the seller said was intangible goods.


    I was furious. Because the seller did not provide one proof he even sent me the item and that he did not even bother to argue. He only said that with my TONS OF evidence he did not even provide the item.

    I obviously after a while first time called paypal support. This is hard because paypal hides their phone.

    I call them hoping that I will solve this with my money back. The woman just kept saying intangible goods is not investigated by paypal. Then I thought about it. Why does paypal even bother to have a virtual item category if everyone who dispute it is just going to lose?

    It's like having your car already broken and thinking if the car goes to the wash it might come out pretty but you still can't drive it?

    I was furious now. I went to search all the rules up online. I found out sellers mostly lose the disputes with intangible goods. I was furstrated because i was the buyer in the case and I lost with my evidence pointing my finger at the seller.

    I called again the next day (today). I had a different support which was a bit better. She said she will email the seller after I told her he was suppose to provide information. She also said she can't do anything since its a virtual item. I told her about the mail and the ownership letter that he was suppose to send. So the girl said well since its listed under virtual item we can't do a thing. I was like could you change it because now i realzied its tangbiel but i thought virtual item would fit the descirpiton more but i did not realize you can't do anything now since its listed under virtual. She said it is not possible to change it since its closed anyways. So i was furious and she kept saying she will email the seller to provide the service or the mail. I was like if he doesn't provide it do i get a refund.
    Paypal said no you do not get a refund if the buyer doesn't send the product.

    So therefore paypal supports scammers like these people.

    I know this is a bit long and I'm very frustrated. $60 is alot to a person like me where I am just in high school. That $60 was also very proudly earned by importing items from china and selling it on ebay.

    Also I checked paypal's out just for anyone who saids its a virtual item therefore your not protected. True. It applies to both the seller and the buyer. But when I thought clearly he did not provide the item even paypal knwos i thought seller for sure would of lost. Since both side did not have protection I should of won.

    I guess not.

    I am going to be using paypal alot less. This also makes you realize that paypal won't do a thing if you scam.


    Note to everyone: Templates are considered virtual items too. Programming codes, Anything.


    This is very disappointing. Very frustrating. Also changed my pespective on paypal.


    When paypal saids it will try everything to get your money back. Its a bloodly lie.

    I wished i paid in american express. But i don't have one.
     
    georgedosen, Mar 31, 2010 IP
  2. amagab

    amagab Member

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    #2
    I agree. PayPal is an awesome service and they have very good features for merchants. However, when I was using them for my online business I experienced the same things as you.

    1) They don't give a rats ass if you get screwed by a customer
    2) They don't give a rats ass about helping you
    3) Everything is black and white to them.....and they never give you a second chance if you violate any of their rules.

    I wish there was another service that offers the same services. Is there? If so, please let me know. Thanks!
     
    amagab, Mar 31, 2010 IP
  3. oxidati0n

    oxidati0n Peon

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    #3
    Firstly, don't get me wrong, I'm not any way related to PayPal, neither do I work there. I have been through every single possible scenario, I have been limited, I have been screwed over, and I have lost my money on numourous occassions, and as much as I have wanted to give up PayPal, they are still the biggest online payments service and I will still try to use them. It's all about simple logic and learning the rules they create.

    PayPal works exactly like a legal firm, they can only support you if the evidence is actually proof and in your favour.

    Let me clear a couple of things up that you've said.
    • PayPal actually favours buyers more, but it means they still support sellers if they believe the evidence is correct.
    • PayPal will automatically close the dispute and give money to seller if it is known as a Intangible item. This is already common.
    • Never ever trade domains on PayPal, it's basically like giving your house keys. Anyone can walk through and have the opportunity to take what they wish. Use domain escrows, it's much safer and gives better peace of mind.
    • If you have no other choice on PayPal, use a credit card that lets you make reversals. That backs you up but PayPal also write it on records, so it can bite you in the ass.
    • Read all the terms (it's a lot, I know) but if you're serious about transacting online, you only want to be in the good books of people that handle your money.
    • Don't EVER accept money from people who have NO reputation or are NOT verified. PayPal doesn't focus on them, so you won't win in most cases. If the buyer/seller can't do any of them, it's their loss, because it's better than you making a loss.

    PayPal is very strict, but in a way they're playing a game.

    To show proof that following the rules work, I sold a physical game online about 4 weeks ago, and because the seller was asking me to post to another address to the one listed on his PayPal account, I didn't post (because if you do, PayPal won't ever help you) to the new address, and only did to the VERIFIED address on his PayPal. Because I didnt, he opened a dispute on PayPal stating I didn't send it to the new address, however I uploaded a full document to the dispute on PayPal referring to PayPal's Terms of Service (the section where it says that you can only post to verified addresses to be secured by paypal) and I stated every stage of the transaction (what day he asked me to post to new address, etc) and without hesitation, I was refunded.

    Hope this helps.
     
    oxidati0n, Mar 31, 2010 IP
  4. adsense-member

    adsense-member Guest

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    #4
    Paypal is an awesome service and no doubt about it. I always do these things just to avoid the bad happen.
    1. always ask for the customer paypal address first
    2. always create an invoice with paypal so you have valid transaction.

    I'm always these ways and until now paypal always the best service.
     
    adsense-member, Mar 31, 2010 IP
  5. radhika.writer

    radhika.writer Active Member

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    #5
    Well this teach everyone lesson that when ever you deal with any unknown buyer specially in digital goods, just cover your back. Try to use another processor where ever possible.

    Thanks
     
    radhika.writer, Mar 31, 2010 IP
  6. pixelfrog

    pixelfrog Peon

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    #6
    I wonder if a reservation for an item that is tangible is considered as tangible or not. I've allowed folks to reserve puppies through one of my websites, and a couple of times about a week after a reservation, not according to agreement they try to do an item not received dispute, which is insane, because the agreement states I have 11 months to provide a pup. I've only lost money on chargebacks.
     
    pixelfrog, Apr 1, 2010 IP
  7. georgedosen

    georgedosen Active Member

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    #7
    Yeah but paypal doesn't offer seller support to the seller or buyer support to the buyer for intangible items but why was I the one to lose (as a buyer). I had all the evidence against him while throughout the whole dispute only said one word "virtual item".
    Also when I called up paypal they also know that the seller never trasnfered the goods to me. They said the only thing they could do is email the seller. Obviously it will never work out.
    Very disappointed at paypal. Truly disappointed. With their billion as revenue they could spare some budget in creating a very sophiscated and good dispute system that will fix disputes easily and fairly.
    I personally think paypal is very unfair at the moment.
     
    georgedosen, Apr 2, 2010 IP
  8. oxidati0n

    oxidati0n Peon

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    #8
    Yeah, by default, PayPal does always return the funds to the seller as the seller holds the funds at the time of dispute, so if a dispute is cancelled, funds are given to seller because they had the money before the dispute so if a dispute is cancelled it basically means it didn't exist and the funds go back to where it was before. It isn't unfair, but they don't have anything better.
     
    oxidati0n, Apr 5, 2010 IP
  9. DJxADULESENTZ

    DJxADULESENTZ Peon

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    #9
    I feel the same exact way lol.
     
    DJxADULESENTZ, Apr 6, 2010 IP
  10. amagab

    amagab Member

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    #10
    One more thing that is really irritating: They don't let you use the same bank account twice.

    I had a PayPal account linked to my only checking account. Then I sold my business and didn't think I needed another PayPal account. I was wrong. Two years later I opened a new PayPal account. However, I can't use my same checking account. I emailed them and called them and they said that is their policy to prevent fraud. Even though I was willing to send a copy of my ID, give them my SSN, etc. they wouldn't let it happen.

    So, in order for me to use PayPal again I had to open a new bank account. :mad:
     
    amagab, Apr 6, 2010 IP
  11. Mystique

    Mystique Well-Known Member

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    #11
    Sure it is... as long as you don't face a problem using it and become the worst in your opinion. That's the way humans work!
     
    Mystique, Apr 6, 2010 IP
  12. WebBuddy

    WebBuddy Well-Known Member

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    #12
    Agree with you pal! PayPal has harried several people , but gets new users everyday while the old ones have no other choice. We know it's a time bomb that can explode any time, but do we have a feasible choice?
     
    WebBuddy, Apr 6, 2010 IP
  13. photoads

    photoads Peon

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    #13
    I had a dispute running a few weeks back - this was only $17 but it was the principal of the matter. The seller never replied to me at all there was no correspondance and as soon as I had filed the dispute he was able to escalate it and bang the dispute was lost in his favor. All the seller said was "Intangible Goods" Paypal do not give a damn it is so frustrating ... I use them alot and wish that they had some sort of escrow holding area where the item is uploaded to their site for all to see and then once an acceptance is made the funds are released back.

    I have just filed another dispute $99 for a load of profiles - the original thread got deleted and the seller dispite saying they would send goods on Saturday I have not heard back or received the goods. I have repeated in the dispute that I want the seller to post a link to the item and I am happy to end the dispute ... lets see what happens. You can call paypal and I will be doing so in a minute ...

    What alternatives do others use? in the last 18 months I have lost about $1500 through scammers and guess what all are from this forum!!
     
    photoads, Apr 13, 2010 IP
  14. oxidati0n

    oxidati0n Peon

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    #14
    Don't throw money. Be wise, very wise with your money and if possible, don't look here for your solutions if you feel it is hard.
    Whatever you do, don't be a victim by doing your due digilence.
     
    oxidati0n, Apr 21, 2010 IP
  15. affilorama

    affilorama Active Member

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    #15
    I have never had any problems with paypal or with the people/entities I transact with on paypal. I guess I am lucky.
    Be on the lookout for deals that seem to good to be true, 99.99% of the time they really are too good to be true and you could end up holding the bag. This applies whatever payment processor you use. Know who you are dealing with and look into all the details of the deal.
     
    affilorama, Apr 21, 2010 IP